Where to start second row knot badge?

[WarrenW]

Hi,

 

I received my 4th knot award for my adult uniform shirt. Does the 4th badge go in the center or to the side? I was just wondering if there is a standard for this.

 

Thanks!

 

[Scoutmaster Ron]

Center, on top of the middle one bottom row

[FScouter]

I'd put it on the side closest to the shirt buttons (wearer's right).

[GNX Guy]

If you want to follow the Insignia guide, 2nd row of knots is centered over the 1st row as directed by the text to refer to the picture indicating the positions. Not to mention it looks better. If you have 5 knots, the 2 on the top row are centered over the bottom three as shown in the photo in the insignia guide. Having them to the left or right is kinda tacky, kinda like your assuming your going to be getting more.

 

Some incorrectly place them to the left or right and have said that they are too lazy to remove and resew them as new ones are added. I guess having been in the military, I've become accustomed to attention to detail and pride of wearing the uniform properly.

[jr56]

Supposedly either way is ok. But it does look better centered.

[WarrenW]

Thanks, I'm going to center it on top of the first row.

 

[FScouter]

"If you want to follow the Insignia guide ..."

 

I've been accused of being a book thumper. And being good at it too! What looks best may or may not be what is described in the Guide. What looks best is really in the eye of the beholder. Knots even have a top and a bottom. Some knots I've struggled to see which color overlays the other color. I tend to think that whatever we do with knot placement ranks a little low on the scale of insignia correctness. Still, right is right.

 

However, I must point out ...

The text says "The order of wearing of medals and knots is at the discretion of the wearer." That would seem to eliminate any possiblity of being incorrect. There is no picture in the Guide that depicts 2 knots centered over 3. If one wants to do that, I'd say "fine"! But to place one left or right isn't incorrect.

 

The reference to the picture refers to the 3 awards that are not square knots, and have no distinguishing color to show which the top and which is bottom.

[Stosh]

I say just wait until you get two more knots and then you don't have to worry about it. :^)

 

Stosh

[emb021]

"The reference to the picture refers to the 3 awards that are not square knots, and have no distinguishing color to show which the top and which is bottom. "

 

If you get the latest editions of the Insignia Guide, most of the knots are shown in color on the back cover, so there is little excuse to not wear them correctly.

 

The illustration that is used in the on-line version shows 4 knots being worn, the 4th centered.

 

 

[GMitch]

The first and fourth being centered is easy, and really goes without saying. It is the second, fifth, seventh etc. that cause a dilemma. Is one to strip off the centered one and then center the two so that when the third, sixth, ninth, etc is earned, then the two need to be stripped off and resewn yet again? That is where I draw the line, and apparently nearly everyone else I've seen does also. Most folks with 2 or 5 knots just place them to one side of the first or fourth and start a new row for convenience.

[acco40]

Yes, that would be the easiest, but incorrect. Knots should be centered.

 

EMBROIDERED SQUARE KNOTS AND PIN DEVICES

 

Embroidered 'Square Knots' are representative of pin-on medals or ribbon suspended medals and are designed for the convenience of the wearer. In the case of the Award of Merit and the Professional Training Award, however, the knot is the only wearable insignia.

 

Square Knots are always oriented with the loop of the embroidered knot that comes in front of the standing part (known as the 'loop' or 'bight') to the wearer's right. Another clue to correct orientation is that knots are worn with the distinguishing color (not white) towards the wearer's right. If you are still unsure about correct orientation, check out the knot image links below. After trial and tribulation, I think we've got them all rotated correctly.

 

Square knots are worn centered above the left uniform pocket, in rows of three. There is no particular order in which they should be worn, but it is suggested that the knot deemed most important by the wearer be worn on his or her own right.

 

The above was on the www so it must be correct! (The Virtual Cub Scout Leader's Handbook)

[FScouter]

Insignia Guide: Knots are worn above the left pocket in rows of three. The order of wearing of medals and knots is at the discretion of the wearer.

Nothing is said about centering, though it makes sense that the first one in a row be centered. If the first knot was placed to the right or left instead of being centered, that would not be incorrect given there is no centering instruction in the Guide. Certainly nothing there about removing and re-sewing the entire row when the second and third knots are added.

 

http://www.scouting.org/media/insigniaguide/10K.aspx

[GNX Guy]

A picture is worth a 1000 words. If you reference the hard copy from the scout shop it specifically state that the knots should be worn as in the picture and the 2nd row is centered, it is not to the right and not to the left. If they intended that one or two knots were to be to the left or right the diagram they reference would show that.

[FScouter]

There is a picture with 1 knot in the center. No picture with 2 knots centered. The book says NOTHING about centering. The book does not say "follow the picture" or anything similiar. The book doesn't even reference the picture at all; it's just there as an illustration depicting medals and knots above the pocket.

 

My guess is that centering is such a picayune detail it isn't even worth 3 words, which is why there is nothing written about it. I have no issue at all about how folks want to wear their knots, left, right, or centered.

 

My only issue being "corrected" and told that knots MUST be centered, with reference to a non-existent statement in the book to support the claim. Why not just say something like "My opinion is that knots look better when they are centered on the uniform."

[kraut-60]

Why start a second row? Wear the three you prefer to display.

Theres a neat reference in italics in the current SM handbook that quotes the 1959 SM handbook that says a Scouter who wears his uniform with unit number, city/state strips, badge of office and service star is tastefully attired.

 

I recently was awarded the District award of Merit...so now I have a fourth knot. I will likely drop the Den Leader Training award knot and stick with 3 knots (Scouter Training award,District award of Merit and Arrow of Light knots).

 

I know many Scouters whose multiple knots are largely composed of Cub Scout leader training/service knots.

I feel if one is serving as a Cub Scouter...then the CS knots have validity in showing others ones training and accomplishments in the Cub scout program...For me, I feel once that a Scouter is active in the Boy Scout or Venturing,

then the overt display of Cub related knots takes more away from the uniform than adds to it.

 

I hope no one takes my view as an attack or minimization of the Cub leader knots...because it isnt...I just see way too many CS knots on Boy Scout leaders.