bkale Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 Often wondered why their is not an established device of some sort to add to knots to signify a second awarding (or third, etc). For instance, dedicated leaders that stick around and are Tiger Den Leaders for 3 years.. they would earn the knot once and then nothing under the current system. Wouldn't it be appropriate to recognize these folks with a small star or hash mark or Cub Scout sign or something? The current role in devices is to identify at what level a knot was earned/awarded but nothing as far as repitition.... What do you guys think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkale Posted April 4, 2008 Author Share Posted April 4, 2008 Obviously.. to add more.. a Cub Scout leader could get the Cub Scouter award after 2 more years of service but I am talking more theoretical as far as repition.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emb021 Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 Well, there is a method to show tenure: service stars. National has never bothered to have the idea you put forth, and I think most leaders would balk at bothering to re-earn a training award/key to get another pin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoutldr Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 I don't think that re-earning awards multiple times is a priority for most scouters. Most that I know don't even wear the devices and service stars they are entitled to. I do think that it should be possible to earn the District Award of Merit and Silver Beaver more than once. These are awards that are not sought, but are bestowed only upon the nomination of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr56 Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 That certainly is an interesting concept. I was thinking also, it could be used to designate someone who has earned the Commissioner's Distinquished Service Award more than once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 I think that the devices one can earn is for a knot that applies to different programs. A scout can earn a religious knot as a cub, boy and venturing, if he does he needs to put a cub, scout and venturing device on the knot. If he receives the award then as an adult, he switches to the adult knot but retains all the devices. The award of merit can be earned by adults in the different programs as well. If they earn it as a CM, SM and as a CA, they put the different devices on the knots. Stosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkale Posted April 4, 2008 Author Share Posted April 4, 2008 In the case of the Youth religious knot devices it is to signify which segment or age group of the award. Adults do not earn devices for their Youth religious knot. Adults can be nominated and awarded by a religious organization the Adult Religious Knot but it is intended to be for extended and valuable contribution to the faith programs. My main thought at the beginning of the post is that the regs state that only one of each knot can be worn on the uniform. However, in a typical progression, a parent might be a Tiger Den Leader (Tiger Den leader knot), then Wolf Den Leader (Cub Scout Den Leader knot), Bear den leader (no knot.. already got the Cub Scout Den leader knot), Webelos den leader (with knot) and etc. If the parent has additional children go thru the program it is very possible that they would step forward to lead in these capacities again. Even without other children there are scores of quality adults that love scouting and live to help and teach (thank goodness for these people). So... the second time they are a Tiger Den leader they are once again putting in the work and meeting the requirements (numerous and not all time based requirements).. therefore earning the Tiger Cub Leader knot again... but no process is available for them to wear a "second" knot. Service stars are also a valuable component to recognize years of service.. but a lot of these knots have a lot more to them than just showing up for a year. Or... what of the Cubmaster that serves for 10 years. He earns the Cubmaster Knot (2 years plus a lot of other requirements) and the Cub Scouter knot (2 years plus a lot of other requirements)... but I'm sure his pack would like to keep reminding him that he is valuable to them and has accomplished a lot by meeting the 10+ requirements for a second, third, etc knot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emb021 Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 Don't forget that long-time unit leaders can be nominateed for the District Award of Merit & Silver Beaver. I think too often people think only those at the district or council level are 'eligable'. Also, many units and district come up with other ways to recognize long term service. Ok, so they aren't another knot or something for the unit, but there are ways to recognize this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkale Posted April 4, 2008 Author Share Posted April 4, 2008 Good point about the District Award and Silver Beaver.... I know with the limited experience of adults in my pack that they would not have known that pack level work would allow for eligibility... Truthfully... I'm not sure I have heard of any of these awards being bestowed on anyone just at Pack level in my District... but could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutNut Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 I was my son's DL from Wolf thru Webelos and have been Tiger Den Leader for the last 10 years. If I received a knot for each training award cycle my shirt would be covered. I don't need a shirt full of knots and devices to let others know what I have accomplished. Watching a "little" guy I had as a Tiger receive his Eagle is enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkale Posted April 4, 2008 Author Share Posted April 4, 2008 Totally agree with you ScoutNut.... Just a philosophical discussion on why a device is not around to represent a second knot... not to have 10 of the same knot on the shirt. What does the military do with ribbons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkale Posted April 4, 2008 Author Share Posted April 4, 2008 Looks like the military uses numerals, knots, stars, letters, etc etc etc. Quite a few of these attachments are to represent a subsequent awarding fo the medal.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxieman Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 Personally, I hate that there are 'devices'/pins one uses in order to distinguish what award one has earned with a knot that can be for more then one type of award (for example the Key Knot: Scoutmaster's Key, District Committee Key, Commissioner's Key, etc.) for some awards, but for other similar awards there are different knots (the various Cub Scout Leader awards). Why doesn't National do it all one way or the other (few knots and lots of devices or NO devices and lots of knots)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeptic Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 moxieman; I am with you on that about similar awards in different program areas. It has always confused me that I have a commissioner device and scouter device for a training award, worn on one knot, but the identical award for cubbing, and I believe venturing, have their own knots. Why not simply wear a cub device, or venture device? That would apply at least to the "key" and "training" awards throughout the program. Not sure where else it might apply. Those of us that have been around a long time often struggle with what is too much I think. Years ago, I rode some of my senior scous about wearing what they had earned, and properly. They came back to me and wanted to know why I did not wear medals at formal events. So, for the next few years, I made it a point to do so; but frankly, the medals are a nuisance. Today, I simply wear the knots as earned on my formal shirt, along with a jambo patch and Philmont arrowhead. Do still wear Eagle medal at Eagle courts, and religious awards on Scout Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 I do think that in the example of the religious knot, if the boy earns the knot as a Cub Scout he wears the purple backed silver cord knot with the Cub Scout device on it. If he earns a second medal as a Boy Scout he adds the Boy Scout device to it. He may also earn the award as a Venturer and would then attach a Venturing device. When he turns 18 he changes the knot to an adult knot, silver with purple cord knot, but retains the devices to show that the knot was awarded as a youth. Those who have no devices on the religious knot are those who have had the award given as an adult. Obviously the adult knot with no devices show that the honor carries a different meaning than those who were awarded the honor as a Cub Scout. Those that have been awarded the scoutmaster award of merit wear their tan backed knot with white cord, the crew adviser award of merit wears the same knot with the Venturing device on it. The same holds true for the training and key knots. With that being said, if the scouter has earned the Boy Scout training award which is the knot with no device and the Venturing training award, same knot with the device, does he wear a second knot with the device to show the different award? Same for key knot and maybe the merit award? Or does the scouter use one knot and apply two devices? Stosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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