Red Philmont Coat History

[PPC2152]

Does anyone know exactly when the red wool Philmont coat came into use? Or when they first appeared in either photographs or in the B.S.A. catalogs?

 

I have an old red wool heavy shirt with a black felt Philmont bull on it that belonged to my wife's paternal grandfather. He was James P. Fitch, the first Region Nine (TX, OK, & NM) Scout Executive, and the man who "courted" Waite Phillips during the decade or so leading up to his final donation of Philmont Scout Ranch to Region Nine. Jim Fitch went from being the Region Nine Scout Executive to the position of "General Manager of Phillips Properties" (which included both Philmont and the Philtower Building in Tulsa) for the B.S.A. between 1945 and the early 1950's, when he finally retired. He lived at Philmont year 'round during these years.

 

I have many pictures of him wearing this red wool shirt, usually at Philmont, which would have been during the 1940's and early 1950's. I believe most of the photos show it with the black Philmont bull, but some early ones may have it without. Because it was a bit more light weight than the current Philmont coats, he wore it tucked in to his pants, more like a shirt than like a coat or jacket. It has a manufacturer's label inside the neck that says: "Maker - J. A. Brewster - Camden, ME." It has two square patch pockets in the front with buttoned flaps, and black buttons.

 

I'm just wondering if anyone else has an early "Philmont coat" like this one, made by the same manufacturer. Or if anyone has information that would fill in the story. It stands to reason that 1) if he wore it at Philmont as often as the photos would indicate, then it would be natural for others to follow his example; and 2) if other, more official, Philmont coats were available during that time period, he would have bought one. But because he never did have a more official one, then it means that either Philmont didn't have them during the years that he was at Philmont, or they did have them, but he didn't buy one because he already had one. That being the coat that I inherited.

 

My father-in-law, Jim Fitch's son, said the one his father wore was the first red wool "Philmont coat," and I've always believed it to be, and told others that it was. But, I'm submitting this to the scrutiny of others who may know more of the story.

 

Any history detectives out there?

[captainron14]

This is from another thread from a couple of years ago about the Philmont "felt" Bull worn on the Red wool coat.

It was posted by David Wilson.

There is reference to what you are asking about.

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

The following is quoted, without editing or correction of apparent typographical errors, from the website of Tooth of Time Traders (the official Philmont Scout Ranch trading post):

 

QUOTE

"The Philmont Black Felt Bull originated in 1944 by Dr. E. K. Fretwell, who was then Chief Scout Executive. It was patterned after the bull found in the tile mosaic located at the downstairs entrance to the Villa Philmonte. In the beginning a first year camper or leader received only the head of the bull to sew over the left pock of the shirt. After another year's participation, one qualified for the body portion and the bull, and with three years, the tail. Eventually the bull was made in one piece, black for men and white for women, and the shirt was changed to a red wool jacket. The white bull was discontinued in the late 1980's." http://www.toothoftimetraders.com/philmont/product.asp?s%5Fid=0&dept%5Fid=3195&pf%5Fid=PAAAAADBFLJAAGAC& END QUOTE

 

It seems clear that the original intent was to recognize "campers or leaders" at Philmont. There is no direct indication of whether staff or participants at the training center are considered "campers or leaders." I am not sure when the white bull for women was introduced, but if it pre-dates backcountry programs including women (corresponding with Exploring becoming coed in 1969), that would indicate the bull to be for women participating in training center related activities.

 

There are various "traditions" associated with "the felt bull," including requirements that one "hike in the backcountry," "climb the Tooth of Time," "climb Baldy," or some variation thereof (note that Baldy was not part of Philmont property in 1944); and, various "traditions" associated with Philmont in general, such as, viewing the sunrise from the Tooth of Time or Baldy. While rather popular, these "traditions" are rooted in folklore, not stemming from any Philmont requirement or program. Also, when I first went to Philmont many years ago, hiking to "the tooth" or any other place at night was discouraged; now, Philmont has a policy against it (for safety reasons).

 

I hope this helps.

 

David B. Wilson

622-D-2 (1979)

612-D-2 (2000)

609-E-1 (2003)

 

[Eamonn]

Hi,

I can't vouch for how true this is!!

But for the most part it seems to go with what captainron14 has posted.

 

 

 

According to several of the Philmont histories, the jac-shirt began with Dr. E. K. Fretwell, the Chief Scout Executive in Philmont's early days. In 1944, he brought up the idea of an outdoorsman shirt. He later sent a red shirt to Minor Huffman, Philmont's first General Manager. Fretwell had Huffman trace the bull in the tile at one of the entrances to Philmont for a patch for the red shirt. The first few shirts were made by J.A. Brewster of Camden, Maine. In August, 1946, Fretwell gave each of the regional executives a red shirt with the bull on it.

 

Ea.

[epalmer84]

Here is some more info:

 

http://www.citilink.com/~blkeagle/jacshirt1.htm

 

Ed

[Eamonn]

It's a shame that Mike Walton doesn't say what is the way it is and what is his view on what he thinks it is.

Eamonn.

[PPC2152]

Thanks to Eamonn and epalmer84. You both seem to have some of the information that I was looking for regarding the early appearance of the red wool jac-shirt. I have now found this account in Minor Huffman's book, "High Adventure Among the Magic Mountains: Philmont The First 50 Years." It appears on pages 65 & 66. It says that Fretwell discussed the idea with Huffman in 1944. Then later Fretwell sent Huffman "a red shirt" and asked him to explore the possibility of an emblem for it. Later Fretwell called and asked Huffman to trace the bull in the tile at "automobile entrance" on the north side of the Villa. It wasn't until August 1946 that Fretwell presented the 12 Region Execs with their shirts with the bull over the left pocket.

 

I guess that answers my questions about the history of the original red wool "jac-shirts."

 

Thanks to both of you.

[ironrosefarms]

Has anyone noticed that national supply has moved the red jac shirt to the "collectors" page. I sent an email to them asking if they was discontinuing the jac shirt (that is what is usually in the "collectors" page is discontinued items) I also included my fondness, and my reasoning for keeping it around. A few days later I got an email showing that my email had been forwarded to the head of national supply. Has anyone any info on this? I would truly hate to see the red wool jac shirt fade away.

 

 

[GMitch]

The jac-shirt may have been to the collector's corner page at National Supply, but it also is for sale under Appareal-Jackets still. I think it is still very much in vogue as a preferred official jacket option. There is no uniform jacket, but I think the jac-shirt is as close to it as you can get.