BSA Uniform Shirt "Made in China"?

[Gold Winger]

"My Nissan Frontier was assmebled in Smyrna Tennessee, is that better than GMs asembled in Canda with Mexican parts?"

 

Yep. I don't know about Nissan but Honda get all of their parts locally as well as manufacturing their cars here.

 

I like to tease my Harley riding friends that their bikes have more Japanese parts than my Honda. It's true and it infuriates them to the point that they go out and buy more Chinese made Harley gear.

[FScouter]

"Frankly, the National Council could fix this issue if they had the zeal to do so."

 

Tell us what could be done to fix things. Of course the repair should consider other issues that may be broken by the repair. If the fix is to source in the U.S., you'll have to consider the problems that were fixed by going to other sources. So what is your idea?

[Eagletrek]

I really wonder if anyone from National has addressed the "fair cost" "US made" uniform issue with the many corporate leaders they constantly use to sing the praises of the scouting program and who state the program is needed for America to flourish??? If they have, I find it strange that nothing has happened.

 

Just think, if guys like H. Ross Perot, J.W. Marriott and Michael Bloomberg (all Eagle Scouts) were brought into the mix, what could happen. While none are leaders in the textile industry, they all wield enough clout along with other CEOs who were Eagle Scouts and/or former scouts to fix the problem. If their praises about the program and its purpose are sincere, I'm sure they'd be glad to support/underwrite a US manufacturer of "fair cost" uniforms, at least I hope so. But then again, maybe it's all about the money?????

[BadenP]

With all the bad publicity hitting the Boy Scouts these days, abuse stories, scandals with misuse of money, deaths on scouting ventures, lack of safety training scandals, etc., etc. it amazes me that National has sunk to a new low with the Made in China uniform. I agree with other posters here that this is nothing more than Hypocracy at its worse by National.

 

It is not like we are going to save any money, and it amazes me that National can not find one textile company in the USA that could produce the uniform at a fair price. IMHO someone in National and Supply Division are raking in some payola that we will find out about in yet another scandal years from now. Mazzuca as a former DE of yours all I can say is I do not like the way you are steering the ship, the storm is on the horizon and you are heading into it full speed ahead.

[skeptic]

It is "almost" funny, but actually sad the way some individuals on this board seem to live in a black cloud of negativity. Instead of constantly digging for any and all you perceive as wrong, then going on incessantly about it, why don't you just focus on your own troops or areas and work to improve them? It would not surprise me to find out a few of the worst are not even actually involved at this point, but are only here to stir the pot.

 

While there are lots of reasons to question some decisions, and even some very specific negative occurrences, most are completely blown out of proportion, and considering the size of the organization, a very small incidence comparatively.

 

Flame barrier up!!

[FScouter]

I don't think there is even one clothing supplier left that still manufactures in this country.

[BadenP]

Actually F-Scouter there are five US companies more than capable of meeting BSA uniform needs and I know through friends in the industry none of them were asked to submit bids by National.

 

skeptic, you have posted many negative comments in past threads, those who live in glass houses should not be throwing stones, eh! And my crew is doing quite well, growing and thriving thank you. For the record, I have been an active scouter for over 25 years in all of scoutings programs, I do not hate the BSA programs just the politics going on at National.

[FScouter]

In years past the uniform was made in the U.S. and at a fair price. The Scouting consumer bellyached loudly at miniscule price increases. Look at the hundreds of posts in these forums complaining about the "high" price of uniforms, and the many suggestions to buy lookalike pants from Walmart (not made here either). The consuming public DEMANDS goods from China. It's plain silly to blame BSA, or any distributor or retailer for the failure of the U.S. manufacturers to stay in competitive business.

[BadenP]

Once again F-Scouter you missed the point entirely, the BSA never gave any of the US companies the opportunity to bid on the contract and just took the cheapest bid from this Chinese company, so when the uniforms start to unravel and fall apart and scouts want their money back WHO DO YOU THINK WILL TAKE THE BLAME?, I'll give you a hint it won't be China. Wake up and smell the coffee you people who think National can do no wrong, I think that would be BW, F-Scouter and a few others.

[Rythos]

National is not required to accept bids, nor are they required to use American companies. I think most would agree, however it is always in your best interest to product your specification and then offer the opportunity to bid to companies and determine who can offer the best mix of quality, cost, and the ability to meet your supply needs. And not considering American institutions seems counter productive to a movement based on Civics. Failure to do so just leaves people feeling that National is not being the best steward of its resources.

 

The Uniform has been expensive no matter where they are made as far back as most can remember. I think that those people who advised the cost was due to higher labor of an American Made product were probably giving the best answer they could come up with at the time for what would be a difficult question. I could not guarantee it but I would imagine the more truthful answer (then and now) is they are the price they are because that is what people will pay it.

 

Maybe they use the profit made (I think we can safely assume that they are making a profit even without cost of goods information, how big a profit is hard to say) to subsidize other areas within BSA that are not sufficiently funded. It could be like any large entity that there are areas where money is being wasted/unwisely allocated (the recent staff cutting at National may be a sign of fixing this to some degree) and examination of this may lead to correction of the problem.

 

More than likely the uniform costs will continue to remain high (This term is relative obviously) for as long as people keep joining scouts. I know that many will argue it is no different than any other game the kids can play, it costs money to participate and if they truly want to take part a uniform should be within the reach of everyone (i.e. saving up, birthday/christmas present, etc..) . I know its not out of the realm of possibility for anyone to scrimp/save/resale shop a uniform if their kid truly wants to belong, but telling the Family of a Tiger Cub who has just signed up for scouts if they want a new uniform they need to pay 83.00 for is a lot to ask someone who hasnt had time to become committed to the program.

 

I think that we lose some people to that right away in Cub Scouts (who can say how many.) Im sure things arent any different for new Boy Scouts at signup time, with the exception of most Boy Scouts having had a chance to be part of the BSA through Cubs and knowing its a program they want to continue in.

 

It seems obvious to me that the uniforms are more expensive than they need to be to cover the costs of the materials. Maybe if National made available the information on what those additional dollars are going towards, I would feel better about telling scouts and parents to buy new uniforms, instead of directing them to yard sales, uniform closets, and resale shops.

 

Rythos(This message has been edited by rythos)

[Eagletrek]

As I've been told before by some folks on this forum that Scouting doesn't require the boy to have a uniform, let's take the uniform cost issue out of it.

 

Let's stick to the principles the BSA preaches; the Scout Oath and Law.

 

That said, consider this before stating that we should accept low cost goods from China.

 

 

"Since the founding of the People's Republic of China (PRC) by the Communist Party in 1949, Scouting has officially been banned, while the Young Pioneers of China and the Communist Youth League have become the dominant youth organization in mainland China for younger and older youth, respectively. Currently in mainland China, Scouting is found only in some international schools.

 

Scouting is active in both Hong Kong and Macau, special administrative regions of the People's Republic of China, whose legal systems are separate from that of the rest of the PRC.

 

Scouting existed in mainland China before 1949 under the Republic of China (ROC). In 1949, the ROC government withdrew to Taiwan, where it remains today, and Scouting has continued in Taiwan under the name Scouts of China.

 

In 2004, the Scout Club of Hainan, borrowing heavily from Scouting in terms of emblems, uniforms and activities, was founded in Hainan Province; it is, however, not affiliated with worldwide Scouting. An attempt to organize a nationwide Scouting organization in Wuhan was ended by the government in 2004."

 

 

Now, do we still want the BSA to get their "Scout Stuff" manufactured in China?????

[Eqeq]

It is very nice of Chinese youth labor to work for hours a day in state of the art factories, with excellent safety records for tiny wages creating uniforms to support a group their leaders ban them from joining.

 

I am surprised BSA uniform shirts do not come with a tag announcing this, just like they used to be proud of Made in America. Why would they not want to yell it from the tree tops? Or if the shirt was in someway better due to being manufactured in China have a tag saying, "This BSA uniform shirt is 30% cheaper than if it was made in America."

[Gold Winger]

In the end, the sad truth is that we did it to ourselves. The only justice will be when the market for the cheap stuff collapses because no one except lawyers, doctors and fat cats will have any money.

 

 

[Eagletrek]

GW when were you a scout? Evidently you and I read from a different handbook.

[Gold Winger]

Huh? Can you refute that we did it to ourselves with our demands for cheaper and cheaper products but higher and higher wages.

 

Toss in there the greed of the companies to make every possible penny, no matter the social cost.

 

What does any of this have to do with the Scout handbook?