military visitors

[theysawyoucomin']

Technically on duty,on call

 

 

These terms strectch it a little.

 

For example ASM/Marine Lance Corporal gets 7 days leave and flys from Camp LeJeune to MRS. Lisabob's town. That Marine is subject to a recall off of leave if the stuff hits the fan. You can also bet that terms like"always in the public eye" and "direct representative of CMC" where ever he goes have been engrained in him. He is not "on call". 7 days leave is 7 days leave. His duty station for that time is his Mama's house or where ever he deems fit, so long as he is reachable by phone. These days with cell phones he could go camping in the Minnesota woods for a week.

His leave has been granted by his Commanding Officer in consideration with his unit's mission requirements.

 

Uniform regs are regs where ever he goes. It would not be proper for him to wear Utilities or cammies or BDU's to see his old friend at a Troop meeting.

 

The Israeli Army is "on call". When you see men and women walking around town with an UZI or an M-14 while holding a bag of groceries that is "on call".

 

The Marine would have to go back to his unit and time would be allowed for that. The majority of Marines on Camp Lejeune are not "on call". The Air Alert battalions are subject to 90 minute "grab and go" but that is only the ALPHA incremement.

 

As far as never being around and being registered we have a Marine that is registered to our troop as an adult. He is a helo mechanic stationed in Pennslyvania. His Dad pays his registration, he is considered an adult memebr of the Troop and after his service to "king and country" is over I'm sure he will be back in some adult capacity.

[davlafont]

If we change the uniform in question from military to Law Enforcement, it may help guide our thinking/response. Would a unit scouter/visitor who is police officer be welcome at a unit event in his uniform? Sure. It helps to underscore the community service aspect of scouting. But would some obsevers (maybe parents) wonder why the cops are there? Possibly. Should Officer Jones be acting in an official scout leader capacity? Probably not, unless it's related to how the police operate, etc. (or how THEY benefit from the uniform method). Is it heinous that he couldn't devote the time to change? Not really.

 

Lisabob's original scenario paints a picture of a young man serving his country, home on leave or weekend pass, who is proud enough of his uniform that he doesn't rip it of his body the instant he is authorized to do so. Not all troops have that ethic. It's an influence that scouts could benefit from IMHO. It could spur questions from the scouts about military service. That's where the lines begin to blur; plenty of families do not expect their boys to be recruited by the Armed Forces when they attend a scout function. And when ever a service member appears in public in uniform, it IS a recruiting event whether the troop likes it or not. But back to the Police version of the scenario; the boys are just as likely to "recruited" by the force.

 

 

"I'll bet they don't wear Boy Scout uniforms to work!!

Eamonn."

 

You'll win that bet if the Scouter/Soldier is a young troop in the lower ranks. But a leader could pull it off. It shows that he is involved with the community "outside the fence" and is providing a positive role model for America's youth. Plus, all the cool patches and accoutrement will certainly stimulate some inquiries--in the Army at least. I think I'll try it some day!

[Bob White]

I have been a scout leader in two councils near where active service personnel were also active scout leaders. In both councils they wore Scout uniforms when scouting and their service uniform when at work. I never saw a single one show up at a scouting event wearing their service uniform. And I am willing to bet they never showed up for duty in their Scout uniform.

[ozemu]

Maybe not but it would be pretty cool if they did.

[Pack212Scouter]

As I said earlier...it's not really that complicated. If attending as part of their duty("could the amy...air force..etc help with our event?" "Sure we'll be glad to"), as a military representative by the request of the unit/district/council (memorial day, veterans day, etc), or if they are on ready alert (or whatever their 60 minute on call is called now days), military uniform would be appropriate. They should wear their Scouting uniform at all other times.

[hendrickms24]

All,

 

My understanding when I was in the Army 1994 to 98 that BDU (don't know what the field uniforms are call now) were only worn on Post and if off post just while you were driving home. So if this regulation is still in affect I would not wear my uniform at a BSA meeting.

 

"If attending as part of their duty('could the amy...air force..etc help with our event?' 'Sure we'll be glad to')" Did the Supreme Court rule against the Military direct support of BSA?

[Trevorum]

A few weeks ago, we held a special troop ceremony celebrating our 100 Eagle Scouts. We dug through the old troop rosters and sent out invitations to all of our Eagles, as far back as the 70s. We asked those who wanted, to prepare a few short remarks for our young fellows still in the troop and working towards their own Eagle. On the day of the event, as the crowd was arriving, I saw a Marine in full dress blues get out of his car and walk up to the church. Now that's a uniform!! I didn't recognize him, but I thought, "Oh boy! This guy will be a wonderful inspiration to our Scouts!" Alas, he walked right by our hall and towards the sanctuary; he was there for wedding. But that Marine uniform sure would have looked good on our stage!

[Pack212Scouter]

The decision was reversed by the US Court of Appeals on April 4, 2007 in Winkler vs Gates, which ruled that the plaintiffs lacked legal standing as taxpayers to bring the suit in the first place. Therefore, the 2010 Jamboree at Fort A.P. Hill and future support by DOD of Jamborees will continue as before. As of Februrary 2008 the ACLU has not requested review by the US Supreme Court.

 

Also The Support Our Scouts Act of 2005 was passed as part of the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2006 to prevent Local, State and Federal agencies from reducing their support for the Boy Scouts of America (and other youth organization). So at this point, military support stands.(This message has been edited by Pack212Scouter)

[Shadowrider]

I'm not up on military uniform regs, but with a law enforcement background I know that if I appear in public in my uniform I am representing my agency and my actions could be viewed as "official". My appearance and actions are considered representaive of my agency. i.e. I don't take off my tie or let my shirt tails hang out after work driving home if I'm going to stop and get gas. As long as military personnel are following their serice's uniform regulations and act appropriately I don't see a problem with wearing uniforms to a scout function.

 

I work in a city with multiple active reserve and guard units, you never see service personnel in BDUs in public unless they're "in transit" like on their lunch breaks, or on their way home at the grocery store or gas station. I suspect the young man attending the scout meetings should be in class A uniform, not BDUs.

[Gunny2862]

IMHo, Shadowrider is correct, that an appropriate uniform for the venue and activity would be in order.

I don't know the regs for the other services and so will leave those for someone else to give...

 

For a Marine:

The thing is, for a Marine that unless the regs have changed neither Cammies = "BDU's, a Charlie, or a Bravo uniform is authorized for leave or liberty leaving one with the option to wear either Alphas or Blues. Which would lead one to believe that wearing said "A" or "B" uniform to a Court of Honor or to address a Troop or Patrol meeting might be appropriate. Leave is with orders, Liberty is anytime one is not considered to be on duty and has been "released" for the day. Liberty is usually less than 24 hours and rarely exceeds 72(occasionally up to 96) hours without having converted to a Leave status with the appropriate paperwork.

 

BDU's or any other uniform could be worn if the Marine were there as part of his official duties and the uniform was appropriate to those duties.

 

My understanding for all services is that while in most instances it is desired that BDU's NOT be worn while not on duty while in contact with the civilian populace, that if you need gas and must procure it on the way home then that would be okay. Stopping at the Mega-store, not usually okay. Stopping at the Boy Scout meeting - probably not okay in BDU's in most instances.(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

[John-in-KC]

Gunny,

 

I've seen lots of variations of field uniforms for folks coming home from Theater since OIF began. While each Service still has its Regs in force, I suspect much depends on local Commander policy... to include General Petraeus as Cdr MNF-I.

 

 

[acco40]

I think most of you are way off base on the original question in my opinion. Most of you are looking at it from the perspective of the military (armed services).

 

From Lisabob's original question, I think she is asking from the perspective of the BSA. The BSA does not want to be viewed as a paramilitary group. Therefore, for example, it highly discourages the wearing of camo pants to camporees by scouts or scouters. However, if a scout unit has a guest who happens to be in the armed services and is visiting in that capacity, wearing their service uniform would not be a problem at all from the perspective of the BSA (from the service that is an altogether different question).

 

Now, if the SA in Lisabob's example shows up in a "quasi-uniform" - BDU pants and a Scout shirt - that would be a big no, no in everyones eyes.

 

At our council dinner honoring the boys and girls who made Eagle / Venture Gold for the calendar year our company sponsored ten Scouts. I went in the capacity of representing my company and was paired with a Scout who had an interest in my profession. I'm also an active Scouter - council, district and unit level. What would be proper attire for me at that event? Well, I was told either my Scout uniform or my "job uniform" (business casual).

[acco40]

FWIW, I work for a private defense contractor where all of the employees are civilians but we do have a few embedded military folks work with us. They wear their uniform (BDUs) at work 95% of the time. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[Gunny2862]

John-in-KC, absolutely - sometimes your civvie gear just doesn't stay where you can get it or you might get a fast turnaround and not be able to draw it and so, travel regulations have been generally relaxed to and from this theatre.

 

acco40, I think I'm tracking on this one.

 

What the undercurrent of what I actually wrote was supposed to convey would have been along the lines of : Unless the military person was performing assigned work duties with a military purpose(which could include community service or a recruiting function - but it must have been assigned by a person in the military hierarchy) which could be reasonable expected to ruin one of the other uniform options he shouldn't be visiting the Troop in a BDU uniform.

 

This fits both the BSA's desire to not be seen as paramilitary by avoiding the camouflage issue and following appropriate military regulations.

 

If the visitor is in the appropriate uniform for a visit, then no problem either way - at least not for me.