military visitors

[Lisabob]

OK this is a little bit of a tangent on the various military/scouting uniform threads. About this business of not wearing military garb in a scouting environment...What do you make of a young man, Eagle scout who aged out within the last year or so, technically now an ASM but serving in the military, who visits the troop from time to time in military uniform (camos, not dress uniform)?

 

I don't have a dog in this either way, I'm just curious to know how that would be perceived?

[hops_scout]

Absolutely no problem with that whatsoever IMO. The only issue would be whether doing so would be approved by his branch of service which I would assume he would know.

[emb021]

It's no different then any other active military personnel visiting a scout unit.

 

Are you suggesting that military personnel are unwell at scouting events while in military uniform?

 

 

[Lisabob]

No emb, I'm definitely not suggesting that. Call it idle curiosity (and we know that leads nowhere good). But in some of our other threads people have gotten into discussions about whether it is ok, or prohibited, for scouts & scouters to wear military or military-style clothing at scouting events. And that made me wonder how people would react to a couple of young men from our troop, who are registered ASMs now, and also on active duty. When they attend our scout functions (while on leave) they are almost always in military uniform. I'm proud of them and grateful for their service so don't get me wrong - just wondering "out loud" is all.

[Eamonn]

Don't know about anyone else.

I feel that if they visit as military visitors that's one thing but when they are acting as Scouting volunteer leaders that's another.

I'll bet they don't wear Boy Scout uniforms to work!!

Eamonn.

 

[Gold Winger]

If he's there as a Scouter, I feel the same about that as I do about people who wear their work clothes to meetings. "I don't have time to go home and change!" is the frequent cry. So? Take your Scout suit to work and change before you leave UNLESS you are embarassed to be seen in it then that's a different issue.

 

The exception that I'd make for that is if the work garb is part of a special thing like "What a stockbroker does" or "Intro to plumbing".

[ozemu]

I was in a tearing hurry once getting to the weekly meeting. Was already late and they were expecting me to do something so I attended in military uniform.

 

Oddly there was a Scout who had lots of issues with conformity and just plain getting along with others. He was on the verge of being asked to stop coming to give us a chance of progressing along a little. He responded to me being in a military uniform. Asked a few questions etc.

 

A few weeks later we realised that he had turned the corner on his disruptive behaviour. Looking back it seemed to coincide with my wearing of Army gear rather than Scout uniform.

 

I am not advocating that mil uniform is worn to achieve this result. Just that something may have worked out well from me being something other than a Scout - and specifically in this case, me being a soldier.

 

I don't think it hurts to turn up straight from work and show a different side to ourselves if that is the way it happens. We are who we are and I don't put myself nor expect others to pigeon hole themselves too much. Me in Scout uniform is the same as me at home mowing the lawn or at work or in the shower for that matter.

[Stosh]

I guess I go with the consensus of the others. If they are there as an ASM, they should look the part. If they are there as a visiting military person, they should look the part. As a military person they should be aware of this. No one in the military shows up without the appropriate uniform for the situation they find themselves in. A marine will not show up at a miltary ball wearing BDU's no matter how cool it may seem. And s/he would not show up at the firing range with their Dress Blues either. Even if I were an Eagle Scout, I would put that fact on my resume, but I wouldn't show up for the interview in my scout uniform.

 

Stosh

 

[kraut-60]

Our troop has its first CoH at the end of the month and our PLC has a uniform inspection slated as the first item to be done after the pot-luck fellowship.

 

We have a former member who will be on leave from the USAF when we hold the CoH. The PLC is asking him to be the person who does the uniform inspection...he is being asked to conduct it while wearing his military class A uniform.

 

We usually ask a uniformed guest to inspect the troop, including the uniformed adult members. Our guest inspectors are BSA members of troop or district/council level scouters. We feel a serving member of our armed forces is a worthy example to our scouts.

[John-in-KC]

Lisa,

 

There are times and places where Soldiers are not permitted the privilege of civilian clothing. It was rare before 9-11, but has been fairly frequent since.

 

Even the rule on not travelling in field uniforms to/from/during leaves has been set aside. I think we've all seen the pictures of friends and family arriving home for their two week R&R leave from the sandbox in their service field uniform. As late as VietNam, troops had a set of Class B khakis available for leaves, etc.

 

Now, if he's local area, and just doing his military job in the local area, then what GW said may apply. If he's on recruiter duty, then he's expected to show up at BSA/GSUSA/Camp Fire/HS athletic games, ad infinitum in uniform. It's part of the job.

[scoutldr]

What does "technically now an ASM" mean? He either is registered as an ASM, or not. If he is, then he is "technically not a visitor". That being said, active duty military members are on duty 24/7, and wearing their uniform is always appropriate. At least that's what they tell me when we compare pay and benefits! But I think the multiple roles need to be clarified. If he's an ASM, and is there to function as one, then the Scout uniform is appropriate. If he's not going to function as one, and acts like an occasional "visitor", then why is he registered as an ASM? Seems to me the root of the dilemma is being caused by registering people who think they are just visitors.

 

We had a registered committee member (a young Navy corpsman/Eagle Scout that I met at work and invited him to work with my troop), who attended Summer Camp with us on TAD orders. For the civilians out there, that means his work assignment was to attend summer camp, and he wasn't required to use his Annual Leave, like I am required to do. As such, he wore BDUs the whole week, since, "technically", he was on duty.

 

As an aside, he no longer works with my troop, because he said the comments and strange looks he got from parents and fellow scouters were just too uncomfortable. Why in the world would a young, single guy be interested in working with boys...hmmmmm? What a shame.

[Lisabob]

What I meant was that he is registered as an ASM but is not actually serving as one, since he's seldom there to do so. I think the idea was to keep him on the roster as a scouter after he turned 18.

 

Anyway, I'm not opposed to either of these guys being present in uniform as visitors. I think they are both great role models for our younger scouts, who "knew them when." And I would never want to make them feel uncomfortable or out of place for visiting. I merely wondered how others would view it, is all. So thanks folks, for your views.

[Gold Winger]

"As such, he wore BDUs the whole week, since, "technically", he was on duty."

 

Interesting, I spent a summer camp with some Army officers who never wore their uniforms. They never said that they were TDY, it was some sort of community service activity. Probably the same thing just different name.

 

"Why in the world would a young, single guy be interested in working with boys...hmmmmm? What a shame."

 

Truly a shame but the funny thing is that if he offered to coach the local soccer team, no one would think twice.

 

 

[theysawyoucomin']

Would anybody have asked this question during WW2 (in England or US) when a "local boy" returned home for a bit of leave and went to visit his old friends in the Troop?

 

The liberal agenda has certainly changed our minds on the subject.

 

 

Let's look at the military side:

Utilities are not authorized for wear on leave or liberty for Marines. If he was giving a presentation that would be ok. One of the service uniforms would be required foe a visit.

 

Does from time to time mean every 6 months or so?

 

 

 

As far as the military garb thing; when civilians wear uniform parts it looks stupid and it demeans the uniform. Hunters wear camo for a reason and that has a purpose. If a kid is gung ho about the military, get him a tee shirt. Wearing camo pants and carrying a large knife looks like one was misunderstood as a child, or that one watches too many low brow movies.

 

The large majority of people I see wearing parts of uniforms, that are not in the military, need a bath.

[Pack212Scouter]

The uniforming policy is pretty simple really. If military personel are assigned duty at the event, or they are on immediate call, where time changing uniform is not available (they are always on call and since 911 this has become even more so), then it would be appropriate for them to wear uniform. Also, if they are there representing the military at some function at the unit's request (such as a cerimony or Memorial Day) then uniform would also be appropriate or even desired. Even Philmont has an official policy for this (and if BSA would correct anywhere it would be there). It states "Military personnel on temporary assignment at Philmont may wear the uniform of their respective services or the Scout uniform prescribed for staff use."

 

That said, military style, or cammoflage clothing as "class-B" is not acceptable for non military personel or boys at any event. Off duty military personel should also be respectful enough of the BSA uniform to wear it when appropriate.(This message has been edited by Pack212Scouter)