Uniform uniformity, function and the military

[Bob White]

There is nothing wrong with using you military rucksack. or having equipment with a camo design. The memo years ago from Williams refered to mixing military uniforming with the Boy Scout Uniform or wearing military uniforming in place of a Boy Scout uniform as well as wearing things like wearing a military ammo belt and suspenders with the uniform. The purpose was to keep military wannabes from trying to make the Boy Scouts look paramilitary by adding to or replacing BSA uniform pieces with military garm or equipment.

 

Leader of good character should be able to tell when the line is crossed.

 

As far as BDUs it is improper to wear non uniform pieces with uniform pieces if you intent os to follow the rules and set a good example. It is also improper to dress in military garb during a scouting activity. Let your own integrity tell you if wearing BDU's fit either of those prohibitions.

 

(This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[Gold Winger]

Don't know about that Bob but then I haven't had the opportunity to chat with Roy Williams like I'm sure you have.

 

"Scout Executives are to instruct unit leaders and volunteers that those articles of clothing along with equipment like pistol belts, suspenders and military field gear are not allowed to be worn with official Boy Scouts of America clothing or in the place of BSA uniforms and outdoor clothing."

 

Sounds like carrying a cammo ALICE pack (field gear) at a Cub-o-ree is prohibited.

(This message has been edited by Gold Winger)

[FScouter]

"Sounds like carrying a cammo ALICE pack (field gear) at a Cub-o-ree is prohibited."

 

Gee, I don't remember getting any memo. Hows about posting the memo so we can all see what's prohibited.

[SctDad]

BOB

 

I understand where you would be coming from with your point of view. But my point is the functionality of the pants. I just find it easier to have access into the larger pockets.

 

WIth all the other things going on in my life and financial obligations, I cannot see getting another pair of pants right now especially with the rising cost of the uniforms.

 

Yes I do plan on getting there in the near future, but this is my first year back in scouting. I think there should be some leeway for some parents. THere are some of us who just can't afford it right away.

[Gold Winger]

Since BSA has no official uniform police and there are no penalties for not being correctly uniformed, you can really wear whatever you want. However, be warned that we will talk about you as well as point and frown.

[SctDad]

Don't worry I will be OK

[Gold Winger]

You've never seen me point and frown :-)

[emb021]

"But my point is the functionality of the pants. I just find it easier to have access into the larger pockets.

 

"WIth all the other things going on in my life and financial obligations, I cannot see getting another pair of pants right now especially with the rising cost of the uniforms."

 

Ok.

 

Let me add this.

 

If you were to obtain and wear olive drab pants that look pretty close to the ones the BSA wears, I think most won't get too upset. If, however, you were to obtain CAMO pants to wear, that's different, and most would not like it.

 

 

 

[Gold Winger]

OD BDU pants are available and worn my many Scouters. There are also many organizations that wear dark green pants with cargo pockets that cost about the same as BSA pants but are better made.

[Eamonn]

Not to hijack the thread.

The PA Department of Corrections has very strict uniform regulations. For both inmates and staff.

I received an e-mail the other day informing me that the Uniform Committee had met and the institution where I work was one of three that had been selected to field test a new raincoat.

I read the e-mail to a co-worker.

He thought about it for a minute and was very serious when he said "What happens if it doesn't rain ?"

I didn't have an answer!!

Ea.

 

[ozemu]

As I recall Scout uniform in 1908 was basically a copy of a military field uniform that was invented in the field and adapted by BP complete with his own badges etc.

 

A few years later there were heaps of surplus mil uniforms and they were encouraged as Scout uniform - cut down to fit for youth members. Heck I've seen photo's of Scouters wearing Sam Brown belts (which were designed for one armed swordsmen).

 

Does BSA encourage the wearing of military medal ribbons with Scout uniform? We do.

 

By the way - over here they have changed the Scout uniform. There are no required trousers. I don't think we can go naked from the waist down but otherwise anything goes. The shirt is navy blue. When I wear Scout uniform the only thing from official scout catalogues are the badges. The Scouts themselves seem to enjoy wearing military camo trousers and surf shorts with their Scout shirts.

 

 

[John-in-KC]

ozemu, you asked:

 

Does BSA encourage the wearing of military medal ribbons with Scout uniform? We do.

 

Scouts Australia may, but BSA doesn't.

 

Gunny: Great commentary, and spot on.

 

BW: You miss three key points of Gunny's commentary:

 

1- When BSA says uniform, we mean clothing.

2- When the Armed Forces say uniform, we mean clothing and equipment.

 

3- BSA has (and Lord willing never will) have coercive measures for wearing uniforms.

4- The Armed Forces have, have used, and will continue to use coercive measures as needed to ensure Soldiers, Sailors, Marines, and Airmen are in the right place, at the right time, with the right gear.

 

5- BSA does not spend resources on uniform compliance.

6- Armed Forces spend time and energy inspecting clothing and equipment.

 

7- BSA has one source of supply for its clothing: BSA Supply Division.

8- The Armed Forces have more than one source of supply, although a commander can specify "issued only" items. We can buy Defense Personnel Support Center stocked items, or we can go downtown. This includes almost every item in the inventory. Lord knows my service Green and Dress Blue uniforms came from custom uniformers!

[Stosh]

I always enjoy these discussions where it is automatically assumed that there is a problem between BSA uniform and military uniform. Surely one doesn't need to copy anything military to be uniform.

 

Using cammo as an example, the only cammo used in uniforms is the military. Sure hunters wear cammo, but not as a uniform. The closest thing to a hunter's uniform is blaze orange.

 

Auto mechanics, food service employees, janitors, house keeping staff, medical personnel, police personnel, fire personnel, etc. etc. all wear uniforms. They do so without having to imitate the military. The only question BSA poses is why is it so important that scouts have to imitate the military? A uniform is used to indicate identity. If people mix and match with uniforms of other identities don't they just add confusion? People shouldn't have to ask if this person is a Scout or Soldier. Only scouts seem to think it's ok to mix and match and still call it a uniform. I wonder what kind of confidence it would invoke in a patient if the surgeon showed up in the ER in Micky D shirt and blaze orange pants?

 

BSA has a uniform. It is not a hodge-podge. It is spelled out rather well in the uniform inspection sheets. I don't know how they could make it any more clear than that.

 

Stosh

[SctDad]

"I wonder what kind of confidence it would invoke in a patient if the surgeon showed up in the ER in Micky D shirt and blaze orange pants?"

 

Trust me I have seen worse. Sometimes funnier.

 

We are not trying to imitate other branches. As I said I wear my BDU pants for functionality and durability. Big Pockets and Durable fabric. That and I have plenty of them, from several (11) years in the service. They were all FREE. The scout pants that are required are about $40 for my size.

[Stosh]

I don't have a problem with anyone wearing functional pants, BDU or not, just don't go around giving the impression that it's part of any BSA uniform. If one isn't wearing a BSA uniform, he isn't wearing a BSA uniform. Not a problem. Just don't try and fool people into thinking they are. If for practical necessity, drop out of the uniform, put on a scout camp t-shirt or a red "activity" shirt, slip into your BDU's, but then don't try and convince the world that this implies some sort of makeshift scout "uniform". If one complies to the description described on the inspection sheet, s/he's in uniform, otherwise they aren't. I may have boys wearing the old style pants with the mule-eared pockets design with red piping, but at least they are BSA uniform pants.

 

Stosh