SctDad Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 I found a website one time that sold patches that were general styles and images, but you were able to add your own text. That is why I asked about semi-custom patches. I cannot find the link again. Can someone send it to me if they find it. I am thinking about trying to get some patches like this for the pack activities that we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pack378 Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 http://www.thepatchplace.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Proceed with caution dad! If you find the site, for you to add any of the over 70 BSA protected logos or phrases the manufacturer will need to be a BSA licensed dealer. Other wise you could both be in violation of federal trademark laws. The link provided in the prvious post does not diplay the BSA Seal that they would have recieved had they been an approved vendor.(This message has been edited by Bob White) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadenP Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 FYI Bob, The Patch Place does not use the BSA logo on their patches, they use a plain fleur-de-lis symbol which is not copyrighted and is used worldwide for a wide variety of things and organizations. By the way the violation of a copyright would be the problem of the manufacturer not the buyer. So Dad go ahead and use the Patch Place they have been in business for a long time and the BSA is fully aware of what they manufacture and there is no problem, in fact some scout stores use them for the generic scout patches, like pinewood derby,camporee,first aid, popcorn, scout sunday, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Sctdad wrote "I found a website one time that sold patches that were general styles and images, but you were able to add your own text. Once he adds text that connects the fluer-de-lis with BSA scouting, words such as Cub Scout Pack,and others, it no longer becomes ageneric symbol, it becomes the protected emblem of the BSA and the manufacturer would need to be a licensed vendor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberSchiff Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Here is another example of too much HASSLE in Scouting, a.k.a., Scouting Trademark Protection Gone Wild. It's all about $$$. I wanted a local shop, that I have done business for years, to embroider a dozen camp t-shirts (Made in USA) for my scouts. I supplied the shirts and the added embroidery came to just under $100. So a small order, no setup charge, and he allows me to supply the shirts, gotta love this shop. The words were simply Troop XXX BSA Camp YYYY But the shop was not licensed by the BSA (cost $250) and a "licensed" shop would not embroider any shirts that I supplied! However at the "licensed" shop, I could buy their (offshore) shirts + minimum order of 24 shirts + embroidery for a cost of $26/shirt. What a deal! A scout is thrifty, so I dropped the "BSA" over the BS. My guys had economical Made in USA t-shirts with words Troop XXX USA Camp YYYY Any patches that I design for the troop now have no BSA trademark. Our new Class B's will be silk screeened locally and will not have any BSA trademarks on them. I can understand the BSA wanting a percentage on commercial products using the BSA trademarks; I cannot understand why they want to hassle units making patches and shirts for their own use. We certainly do not make any money. Interested in reading Scouting Trademark Protection Gone Wild? http://www.bsalicensing.org/council_faq.htm Warning, I plan to trademark "BS". So that any use of "BS" will require a license from me. I expect to get rich off of "BS". You thought I was going for the "Gone Wild"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Of course its about money! Why should the patch manufacturer be allowed to make money using trademarks he does not have permission to use? He must pay a royalty to the owner of the logo. Unless he is a licensed vendor with the trademark holder he cannot use anyone's trademark. Why did you think trademarks exist? (This message has been edited by a staff member.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberSchiff Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 The license fee is passed on to his customers, so Troop XXX would have paid the $250 + $100 job cost for a total of $350. Still less than the "licensed" shop, but why should we pay the BSA for the "privilege" of embroidering BSA on our BSA Troop XXX camp shirts? Your trademark is your corporate identity, your "good name"; you register a trademark to protect your "good name" so that others cannot malign it or profit from it. You then may or may not choose to license it use to third parties. Here, the BSA is protecting it's trademark from itself (Troop XXX). Troop XXX is using the trademark, not the local shirt shop. Well doesn't matter now, I do not use any BSA trademarks, so the BSA is SOL. Warning, I plan to trademark "SOL" also... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belayer_StLouis Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 We have made lots of small quantity special event patches for Pack and Troop using the patches shown in the official BSA catalog. Thought it was very easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SctDad Posted January 28, 2008 Author Share Posted January 28, 2008 The one I found, if I remember correctly, actually came from either the Boys Life Mag or the Scouting Leadership Mag. I just cannot find the mags right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunt Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 BSA really needs to craft a blanket "small order waiver" to address this problem. A unit that is trying to have 10 shirts made should not have to deal with a $250 registration fee for the local shirt shop. The waiver could include guidelines on what is acceptable. I agree that BSA needs to control and protect its trademarks and copyrights, but it should place that interest after the best interests of unit programs. (I feel BSA is making the same mistake by limiting certain publications to print versions, in particular the merit badge pamphlets.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadenP Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Bob You give out misinformation once again, the fleur de lis is not and never has been a registered trademark, its origin goes back to early French history. As long as the patch does not say BSA or Boy Scouts of America IT IS NOT A COPYRIGHT VIOLATION, it can say pinewood derby, klondike derby, etc. This was verified by our National BSA scout shop manager, straight from the National supply division. The words pack, troop, crew are also not copyrighted and can be used on a patch with a fleur de lis. You need to check with someone who knows what they are talking about before you state what is not true Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Winger Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 "Of course its about money! Why should the patch manufacturer be allowed to make money using trademarks he does not have permission to use?" Yes, it's about more money for BSA and their special friends. Until recently, units were allowed to have local shops make clothing with BSA logo with no fuss, no muss. Now BSA says that they want to be sure that the quality is up to snuff. Yeah, right! Until recently, you could photocopy BSA literature without a problem. Now, you can no longer go to the local copy shop to reproduce health forms. You can do it at your office but many employers don't like that idea. It's all about mo-money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Units can still use local shops. The BSA will allow a shop within the geographic confines of the council to serve that one council without a license. They cannot however go outside the council without being licensed. That change was only recently announced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Winger Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Where is this documented? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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