Flag optional on uniform?

[Gold Winger]

At one time, I had conversations with people from the Army who deal with the flag and flag history as well as the Atty General of the US's office about the flag, treatment and disposal.

 

Postage stamps, patches and toy flags (like the ones on cupcakes) are not considered flags and can be tossed into the trash without feeling guilty.

 

 

[Stosh]

acco40... :^) That is the Flag Code.... Kinda one of those trees vs. woods kinda thing.

 

 

"At one time, I had conversations with people from the Army who deal with the flag and flag history as well as the Atty General of the US's office about the flag, treatment and disposal.

 

Postage stamps, patches and toy flags (like the ones on cupcakes) are not considered flags and can be tossed into the trash without feeling guilty."

 

 

Unfortunately these people can be ignorant of the law just like a lot of others. And thus the insensitivity continues. Acco40 has provided the law with reference to section 3. It would be wise to not only read it, but understand it as well. While one may never be fined for the action, nor even for burning of the flag, but as a representative of a respected organization synonymous with flag ettiquette, one would do well to set an exemplary example.

 

Just ask the Obama supporters who dumped all those flags in the trash after their convention. Obviously there are many out there who have no awareness of the law nor sensitivity of honor to the importance of one's Flag.

 

If it takes an act of Congressional legislation to provide a opportunity to have one's national colors afixed to one shirt, one ought to take note of it's importance.

 

As a person who does research on veterans' graves in our county, I have for many years carried a stapler, tape and needle/thread in my vehicle at all times to repair their flags as the weather takes it's toll. If they can't be repaired, I remove them and dispose of them according to the recommendation of the Code.

 

Stosh

[Gold Winger]

"Unfortunately these people can be ignorant of the law just like a lot of others."

 

Yeah, I guess that lawyers with the AttyGen don't understand the law or its interpretations.

[Stosh]

Yeah, and I have had city police, village constables, county deputies and state patrol troopers all tell me that they don't pull people over for speeding until they get about 5-7 mph over the limit. Does that mean they interpret the law differently than the rest of us?

 

And wouldn't it be a great thing to have the lawyers of the US Atty General's office running around nailing ever Tom, Dick and Harry with US Flag code infringement "placed shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and shall be punished by a fine not exceeding $100 or by imprisonment for not more than thirty days, or both, in the discretion of the court". There's a good use of US tax dollars. How many of Obama's people got fined or jail time? Kinda makes the code rather worthless doesn't it?

 

Just because the law is not enforced doesn't mean it doesn't need to be respected and as leaders in the BSA that tweak the laws here and there, the example we set says a lot about the Scout Spirit and Honor ascribed to a scout's word. I may not get to my feet quick enough in a parade when the flag passes, or I might be distracted a bit and miss one or two, but even so, I stand more than anyone else around.

 

I guess there are some who are more sensitive about the careless manner shown the flag than others. Not to worry, as a worse case scenerio, the fine is no worse than a speeding ticket in some states, and less than a speeding ticket in our state.

 

But then it all boils down to whether this is an issue of the mind or the heart.

 

Stosh

[Gold Winger]

I can't print my phone conversations here but I did dig through my email archives and found a message from the American Legion, those left leaning anti-Americans who believe in descrating the flag at every turn.

 

The toothpick flag is really an image of the flag. It is difficult at best to commonly display this item.

 

 

With regards to the flag blanket, if an item is not made from an actual flag, it is difficult at best to disregard this patriotic intent" and as such, bring forth the cessation of the manufacture and sale of these products. There is nothing illegal about the wearing or use of these items.

Of course if it were fashioned from an actual United States flag, we would then have great concerns with the use of the flag in this manner.

 

(This message has been edited by Gold Winger)

[OldGreyEagle]

Remember the infamous "wardrobe malfunction" involving Janet Jackson and Justin Timberlake at the Super Bowl a few years back? The Jackson/Timberlake duo was the second act, Kid ROck was the first act and he came out wearing an American Flag as a poncho, I was postive that would be a big scandal, after Jackson's malfunction, I am not sure it was ever mentioned, but it was wrong

[Stosh]

Yep, just because it waddles and makes a quack noise doesn't make it a duck.

 

There are a lot of people who can justify away in their minds that something is or isn't what it represents. That's not a problem I have to deal with. If one doesn't think: "The words "flag, standard, colors, or ensign", as used herein, shall include any flag, standard, colors, ensign, or any picture or representation of either, or of any part or parts of either, made of any substance or represented on any substance, of any size evidently purporting to be either of said flag, standard, colors, or ensign of the United States of America or a picture or a representation of either, upon which shall be shown the colors, the stars and the stripes, in any number of either thereof, or of any part or parts of either, by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag, colors, standard, or ensign of the United States of America."

 

It's kinda legalese, but it's pretty straight forward, a little thingy on the toothpick that seems to look like a flag is in fact really a flag, otherwise why would anyone put something that looks like the flag on the cupcake in the first place. Prior to 1920 civilians were not allowed to display flags, I guess there was a reason for that which has taken 80 years to dissolved down into being able to toss cupcake flags into the garbage without any guilt or remorse.

 

Stosh

 

[Gold Winger]

That's an interesting duck that you have there. The "law" that you quoted is from the District of Columbia, I don't live in DC so it has no bearing on my life.

 

I'm wondering how civilians were prohibited from flying the flag until 1920 when there were no federal regulations regarding display of the flag until 1923.

 

"Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart."

 

It ain't a flag, it's a replica.

 

Furthermore, if the patch is a flag then the DoD is violating the law by displaying it backwards on airplanes and uniforms.

 

A flag is a flag, a pin is a pin, a cupcake is a cupcake and a toy is a toy.

 

When push comes to shove, it is really nothing more than a scrap of fabric that represents what used to be a great country.

 

[Trevorum]

omygosh! To think all this time I've been blithely throwing away envelopes with cancelled flag stamps on them when I should have been solemnly burning them instead! Honest, I meant no disrespect to our national flag. I am mortified. However, I can't figure out how to burn an uneaten cupcake ...

 

 

 

 

[Stosh]

There are no penalties for desecration of the Flag. Knock yourself out with whatever you wish to do and/or teach your boys.

 

Stosh(This message has been edited by jblake47)

[John-in-KC]

Content withdrawn. J(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[Trevorum]

I think I'll teach our Scouts to salute the American flag, respect other flags, lick stamps, and eat cupcakes.

 

[domclean@liberty.edu]

'Post the Colors' is a metaphor used with regard to Flags, Bunting (those '4th of July swags), and items meant to signify the Flag of the United States of America. 'Post the Colors' has always referred to display on inanimate objects.

 

Wearing the U.S. Flag (which, by the way, is not the 'American' flag -any more than the Flag of Brazil, also an 'American' country) on ones clothing is a personal display of an inward commitment, not an inanimate 'Posting'. The 60's and 70's era were rife with appropriate -and inappropriate, examples, thus the law governing personal displays (I vividly remember seeing the Flag sewn in disrespectful clothing locations on the body) to give School Administrators backing when dealing with such issues.

 

Reciting patriotic pledges is no different than reciting your last name (a 'Pledge' of respect for your ancestry) or calling someone 'Sir' or Ma-am'. It's called respect, and it's important to pass along. Patriotism is a concept that was historically sacred, not legislated. It was individually understood because it was engrained into the children by their elders.

 

Show yourselves to be adults with a good grasp of common sense to your children. It is (not only expected by the Scouts' Parents, but) your duty to yourself, and to those you serve.

[Gold Winger]

"Wearing the U.S. Flag (which, by the way, is not the 'American' flag -any more than the Flag of Brazil, also an 'American' country)"

 

It's not the "U.S." flag either because Mexico is actually "The United States of Mexico." The US of A is the only country that I know of that has "America" in the name, hence it is the American flag and this is America.

 

Sheesh! Talk about PC.

[Stosh]

The Organization of American States ("OAS") refers to all states in the American hemisphere.

 

Stosh