Knot Me

[GNX Guy]

Gonzo1, wish I could agree, but it is plain as day as to what the insignia guide says and plane as day that the single knot shown is centered. Check it out. Please reference your findings, I'd like to check it out.

 

I'll have to go and check to see what the 2007 insignia guide both says and shows, as I do not have a copy of that with me right now.

 

 

 

GONZO1 Wrote: Actually, if the wearer has one or two knots for a row, they can be either centered or set to the side as if waiting for the complete row.

I wish I could provide chapter and verse, can't find it right now.

 

 

[hotdesk]

The Scoutmaster's Handbook does bring up that a Scoutmaster wearing a plain uniform with just his Council Strip, Unit Number, and Scoutmaster patch cannot be found to be in bad taste.

 

I have two knots, my AOL and Eagle. I wear both of them. I wear them because as a Scout both advancement patches were part of my uniform. When I aged out I was given both of the knots by my Advancement Coordinator and changed them just like I did with my Senior Patrol Leader patch to Assistant Scoutmaster patch.

 

LongHaul mentioned that we should set the example for advancement by earning our knots. I do not feel that scouts will not feel like advancing if they don't see adults earning knots. In our troop I am one of two leaders with any knots. Our Chartered Organization Rep. has several. However, during the past year we have had 7 scouts reach Eagle and are on pace to have our 2007 recruits to First Class within their first year in the troop.

 

I also feel that wearing knots should be a personal decision. If you want to earn the knots go ahead and earn them. If you don't want them then don't apply for them. However, let each side decide for themselves. There is nothing wrong with nominating someone for an award that will result in a knot or establishing a James West Fellowship for an adult, but if they don't want to wear the knots don't feel offended or object. If they do wear the knots and you don't also don't feel offeneded or object. The things that I wear correctly on my own uniform are my personal decisions.

 

 

 

 

[FScouter]

It makes sense to place the first knot of a row in the center. That's what your picture shows. It provides no instruction for the 2nd and 3rd knots. For the 2nd knot in a row it makes no sense to remove the 1st knot and center the two as a group. For the 3rd knot in a row it doesn't make sense to remove the first two and then repositon all of them.

 

The website cited is somebody's personal website and the opinions therein are the opinions of that individual. They may or may not have any basis on BSA policy or publications. That is the big problem with using third-party Scouting web sites for guidance: one never knows what is BSA guidance or how up to date is is, and what is personal opinion. In this case the instructions on how to position knots 1, 2, 3, 4, etc. are only the opinion of the webmaster.

[Gold Winger]

"It makes sense to place the first knot of a row in the center. That's what your picture shows. It provides no instruction for the 2nd and 3rd knots. For the 2nd knot in a row it makes no sense to remove the 1st knot and center the two as a group. For the 3rd knot in a row it doesn't make sense to remove the first two and then repositon all of them."

 

Only if you are lazy. It makes perfect sense to me and doesn't really take that long.

[Gonzo1]

The knots are to be sewn on, no military ribbons placed on ribbons holders and easier to move around and attach to a shirt.

 

Don't sew them and remove them and re-sew in my opinion. It might look more military to do so, but not required.

 

[GNX Guy]

humm.........my reply directly after Fscouter has been deleted???????

[SSScout]

MTSO once upon a time became the CSDC Director. She was about to go off to Camp School when she realized that to "fit in", she needed a uniform, at least the shirt. Since thru our Cub Scout days, I had been the uniformed one (CM) and she had seen no need as a "mere" CC and DL, this was a new idea to her. So she started looking around at the other Scouter types we ran into at various functions. I had collected a few knots along the way, and now these were of interest to her. What were they, exactly? What did they signify? With her past history, was it possible that she might get a knot to hang on the uni? So we went back to the old Pack leadership and figured out she qualified for at least two knots, DL and Cubber (I think that's what it's called).

Going off to CSchool, she expected alot of real Scouty Scouters, and wondered how she might 'fit in'. Now with these two added "frou-frou", she felt she had added 'clout', would be more part of the "gang", and not such an outsider. And so she went to Camp School, had a veritable ball and the rest is history.

She has since been awarded (in a surprise presentation, wasn't expecting it at all!) the District Award. Another knot.

 

 

 

YiS

[epalmer84]

Here is the relevant page from the online version of the Insignia Guide:

http://www.scouting.org/pubs/33066/10K.html

 

It does not specify whether partial rows should be centered or can be offset. In my opinion, it should be up to the wearer.

 

Ed

[Its Me]

 

I like Beavah's teacher analogy the best. Other parables I will dispute. In the military they save their medals for their dress blues. Professors don't feel the need to wear their resumes on their shoulder. Sure, Professors wear the robes and colors at commencement and they have meaning but that's only twice a year. By some analogies I should pursue every knot there is to show the kids what a go getter I am, and they should follow.

 

 

FScouter wrote That's one I never heard of. And I thought I had the Insignia Guide memorized.

 

With all do respect. That' just scary!

 

 

I will yield a bit. A few colored knots on your shoulder for the adults to think you have been around a while. Fine suit yourself. Two rows and then some and you are starting to look like a Chilean general.

 

 

 

[Gold Winger]

Medal are saved for dress occassions (full size or miniature depending on the function) but they wear their ribbons far more often. The Army even wears some awards on their combat uniforms, the CIB and jump wings are two examples.

 

Scouters wear their medals on formal occassions and wear the knots the rest of the time.

 

If teachers had uniforms, they'd wear their awards.

 

Why the crack about a Chilean general? Our generals wear enough ribbons for two people or is that different?

[GNX Guy]

Gonzo1, did you ever get a chance to find the text that says the knots can be worn to the left or right and NOT centered like the insignia guide clearly shows?

 

If they intended that a single knot or two knots in a row were to be worn to the left or right, they would have pictured it that way and not referenced the photo and stated "as pictured" and the picture clearly shows knot centered over the pocket, not to the left or right. The insignia guide shows each row centered.

 

Thanks

 

 

[jr56]

I personally choose to wear my knots (13), but, it doesn't matter to me what other adult leaders choose to do, it's their choice. I don't think any more of less of them either way.

[bkale]

A few more cents to throw into the bucket...

 

I am a new adult leader and I wear my knots. I guess I fall into the category of a person that loves scouting and likes to remember all of the past times and likes to show the boys what they should strive for....

 

but one more factor...

 

I am trying to encourage my Pack leaders to be more aware of knots and the requirements that are needed to earn these knots. That is probably the best part of the knots... it sets tangible goals (measurable goals) for the adult leader. Advancement levels, training programs, Pow-Wows, Roundtables, etc. These things are invaluable to the scouting leader and a lot of people (like me... especially me) need things set down for me as a roadmap...

 

 

[MVScouter]

I like Calico Penn's post. It echos my views also.

 

Yes, it is human nature to seek and receive recognition for our efforts. Who wants to supress this aspect of being human, not me.

 

I wear all the knots I've earned. Many times, both adults and youth have come up to me and asked me about what I've earned. Two knots in particlar, the Community Service Award (through the American Legion) and the Boyce New Unit Organizer Award, have caught the attention of many. It gives me the opportunity to explain about them and what they can do to earn it.

 

I look at it this way. If a youth or adult purposely attempts to actively achieve a certain award, Eagle scout, or a scout knot, the labor, time, and service put forth by that scouter, to whatever degree, will be off benefit to someone, or some aspect of scouting. Isn't this the purpose of all scouters: to give service in order to make scouting an enjoyable and adventurous experience for all scouting youth?

 

I am receiving the Commissioners Award of Excellence next month and anyone who is in commissioner service knows that takes 5 years to achieve. Yes, I'm proud to get it, but I'm more proud that the units I serve have been Quality Award Units every year. That translates to healty units that impliment quality programs for their members.