US Flag patch etiquette

[OldGreyEagle]

And here I thought Genoa was a salami or a city in Italy

 

Correct me if I am wrong, like I have to ask, but it was my understanding that a ship doesnt fly a flag, it does have an ensign however which flies, anyway an old salt sea scout skipper told me that once...

 

Pack, stream of consciousness stuff, besides, you guys are lucky, you only get to see what gets thru the filters, imagine living with all this stuff inside(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[GernBlansten]

Be careful OGE, we are talking boats, not ships. You can put a boat on a ship, but not the reverse. An ensign is a distinguishing flag. Just another term for flag. Like rope, sheet, halyard, line, painter. The lovely thing about yachting is learning that each term has a specific usage and meaning, but in the end they are the same.

[OldGreyEagle]

C'est la vie !

[Region 7 Voyageur]

GernBlansten

 

I remember that the difference between a boat and a ship was that the former could be put on the latter. However I would consider the USS Cole a ship and here is a picture of it being on another ship.

 

http://www.naval-technology.com/contractors/warship/dockwise/dockwise5.html

 

 

Dave

[packsaddle]

Right you are, Gern. But there was almost nothing I could see that resembled competitive yachting. They either didn't have another sail or else too lazy to deal with it. On a hot 4th afternoon, I think there's a chance some beer was in play as well. The flags, those were rigged temporarily for the holiday.

I mentioned hull speed because the breeze easily exceeded hull speed on those tubs. The flags were doomed to stream forward.

There was one little Windmill out there that was doing pretty well, though. And maybe a Highlander. The rest were just wallowing around.

[John-in-KC]

A comment as to how the US Army currently wears the flag on the Army Combat Uniform:

 

Our immediate past Chief of Staff, General Peter Schoomaker, made a decision shortly after we entered the current little fracas in Iraq. Your US Army was to be an expeditionary Army, travelling to harms way.

 

The stripes of the Flag follow the field of the stars when the Flag is in motion, and at that time the field goes to the right hand side, when looking at the right hand sleeve of a garment.

 

So, General Schoomaker went to Mr Rumsfeld and Mr Bush, the National Command Authority, and asked permission to change the Flag patch as worn by the US Army.

 

It does not meet US Flag Code. I do not remember whether the Army got an Executive Order or a Letter of Instruction from the Commander-in-Chief, but we got our permission.

[GernBlansten]

Pack,

One man's tub is another man's passion.

 

JKC,

Kudos to Gen Shoomaker. He saw that the flag patch was indeed the ultimate in the demonstration of patriotism and could never have been perceived as in retreat. Now to all those organizations who continue to paint the USA as a country of quitters, I submit: "These colors don't run!". Go forth and change your patch orientation. Show those who hate us for our freedom that we will not falter. I predict the orders for Chinese made US flag patches in the correct orientation to surge.

[local1400]

Seems to me when I was a Cub in 79 or so the Cub uniform had the flag over the right pocket so den number and Webelos colors were the only items on right shoulder. Which way was that taking us? I will admit, I am an undercover U.P. enforcer. Get on the ground Gern.

[GernBlansten]

Undercover U.P.! HA! That's an oxymoron.

 

If the flag is worn on the front of the uniform, I would assume that orientation would follow wall display etiquette as motion to the right would indicate flowing back. Motion to the left would be wrong. We all know right is right, left is wrong. At least politically.

[Hunt]

Isn't a submarine a boat?

[packsaddle]

Yep, but they're still perfecting the sails. I took the photo from my 'tub'. Now that it has cooled off a bit, she's beckoning...passionately.

[Gold Winger]

"So, General Schoomaker went to Mr Rumsfeld and Mr Bush, the National Command Authority, and asked permission to change the Flag patch as worn by the US Army."

 

I don't know where you got your information but your timing is a bit off. According to the Army's Institute of Heraldry the backwards flag came about during Desert Storm, in 1990.

 

" He saw that the flag patch was indeed the ultimate in the demonstration of patriotism and could never have been perceived as in retreat."

 

So all those guys on Omaha Beach who wore their flag the right way were retreating? Astounding.

 

What this really is is just another form of PC. Someone "thought" that the flag looked like it was "retreating," stirred the pot and muddied the waters. Yes I mixed my metaphors.

 

[Gonzo1]

Gold Wing,

John-in-KC and I are both retired soldiers. John currently works on an army base in Kansas. I was in the reserves when General Schoomaker made the order to add the flag patch to all of our field uniforms. When I was in 3d Medical Command from 2001 to 2004, the DCU's already had the flag patch sewn on, yes it was 'backwards'. In 2003 or 2004, everyone in the Army had to sew on the flag patch. The U. S. Army mandated that the American flag would be worn on BDU's, DCU's and now the ACU.

 

I'm sure John has additional information for you.

 

Regarding ships and boats, yes, submarines are boats. yes, in a general sense, ships carry boats. Boats lean into a turn, ships lean away from a turn. So, before Gold Wing questions my information, before I got into the Army, I was in the Navy for 16 years. I deployed aboard many ships and flew for over 1,500 hours in helicopters performing anti-submarine warfare.

 

 

 

[GernBlansten]

Gotta admit, you made me look.

All the pictures I found of the invasion of Omaha Beach show soldiers without US Flag patches on their arms. Astounding.

[John-in-KC]

Here's the real rub,

 

Army initially wore a colored flag in-country. GUESS WHAT BECAME AN AIMPOINT? I kid you not, bad guys with various power scopes aimed on the flag.

 

Rather quickly, Army in country started using a subdued green/black flag.

 

When we send SF or Rangers in harms way, they remove everything other than US Army from their uniforms... enough so they will be legitimate combatants and not captureable/shootable a spies.