US Flag patch etiquette

[CalicoPenn]

First - shouldn't it be TAZE? Whenever I read TAZ - I think of a Warner Brothers cartoon character that bugged Bugs Bunny when he was whirling around in a cloud of dust. Should we really be following the example of some illiterate bonehead who may have spelled it taz on a bumper sticker or poster?

 

Second, there are no penalties for violating the flag code. While it promulgates rules on the display and use of the flag, there are no penalties for not following the rules - other than pangs of your own conscience. Where penalties have been attempted to be imposed on certain acts (flag desecration) the US Supreme Court has ruled, rightly so, that such penalties are in direct opposition to the US Constitution and cannot stand. So, if the UP comes riding up on their high horse about your "violation" of the flag code - give them a dozen prozacs and drop your drawers to proudly show off your US Flag Boxers.

 

Calico

[Gold Winger]

" but I don't think there's anyone out there that can even say which is the current version."

 

How's this?

 

http://www.access.gpo.gov/uscode/title4/chapter1_.html

 

 

[Stosh]

This is a direct quote from the Code:

 

"2002--Pub. L. 107-293 reenacted section catchline without change and

amended text generally. Prior to amendment, text read as follows: ``The

Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag, `I pledge allegiance to the Flag of

the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands,

one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.',

should be rendered by standing at attention facing the flag with the

right hand over the heart. When not in uniform men should remove their

headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the

hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should remain silent, face

the flag, and render the military salute.''"

 

So if Scouts are in uniform, why are the reciting the Pledge out loud. According to the Code they are to remain silent. If the Scout uniform is not a uniform, then the "salute" rendered is the right hand over the heart, not the Scout salute. If the Scout uniform is a uniform, then the scout is to remain silent during the pledge. This only proves my point that for the most part the Code is ignored, people do what they want to do and even the Scouts are not immune to such influence.

 

"The "Flag Code" has been re-written over and over again, so what remains is a conglomerate of what people think it is, what it may be, and what politically correct it might be tomorrow. I have many historical reditions of the Code, but I don't think there's anyone out there that can even say which is the current version." Yes, the government knows what the Code says, but unless someone looks it up and posts a link, I still don't think many people actually know what it really says, and/or adheres to it. I stand by my original post.

 

Stosh

[GernBlansten]

Dang Stosh,

Now here's the situation. I'm gonna be standing at the back of our troop next meeting when the colors are presented wearing my optional flag patch in the wrong orientation on my arm and verbally violating the flag code as I recite the pledge making sure I emphasis the phrase added during the 1950s commie scare. All the while knowing that I've violated untold ordinances, creeds, codes and uniform guides. Whoa is me! DON'T TAZE ME BRO!

[Gold Winger]

We're really in trouble now since most of us don't render a "military salute" but use the Scout salute.

 

Now I have a new crusade, to stop Boy Scouts from reciting the Pledge of Allegiance.

 

Also, did anyone notice that no mention was made of what women should do?

[Hunt]

I think the reason women aren't mentioned is that they do not remove their "headdress."

 

This has been discussed at length before...I take comfort in the fact that there doesn't appear to be anybody who really objects to scouts give the Scout Salute and reciting the Pledge aloud. As to the flag, I'm not persuaded by any of the rhetoric about how the flag should "stream." To me, a flag patch with the stars on the right looks "backwards" and weird.

[packsaddle]

I was thinking TAZ was a cartoon character. Oh well. Anyway, somewhere I have a photo of a 4th-of-July regatta in which some of the sailboats are flying the flag. Guess which way those flags are pointed...

[Gold Winger]

"Anyway, somewhere I have a photo of a 4th-of-July regatta in which some of the sailboats are flying the flag. Guess which way those flags are pointed.."

 

That's because they are flying and not "displayed against a wall" When flying from a pole, mast or halyard, the canton is closest to the pole, mast or halyard.

 

That was my point a while back. Trying o emulate a flying flag by wearing it backwards is silly. A flying flag sometimes flys back, sometimes to the side, sometimes to the front. All depends on the relative wind.

[GernBlansten]

Pack, those pictures are of modern sloops. They perform well upwind at points up to 40 degrees true wind so any flag streaming from a staff could be streaming back. However, sloops were not used in battle. That was the time of large square riggers which could at best gain 70 degrees upwind of true wind. In any case with these vessels, the flag would be streaming abeam or forward, never back.

 

At work yesterday, I noticed our company security forces having a properly oriented flag patch on their right shoulders. Clear violation of the flag code as they are not the military, fire, police or patriotic organization. I wonder if Blackwater wears the flag in the correct orientation?

[packsaddle]

Gern got it, going downwind with Genoas just filled with a stiff breeze, the boats have not yet reached hull speed and the flags are streaming forward.

[Stosh]

Hmmmm, how much of the prescribed uniform parts have to be on the boy be for he is "wearing a Scout uniform"? If he's wearing blue jeans does he salute and remain or put his hand over his heart and say the pledge? If the troop voted on neckerchiefs and he forgot his, does he salute or put his hand over his heart? If Scouts are not military and do not provide for a military style hand salute, do the boys wear their hat inside and salute anyway or take their hats off and hold them over the right shoulder with the hand over their heart?

 

Where's a good Flag Code lawyer when you need one?

 

Here's what I would suggest for those who feel it necessary to follow the Code appropriately. All boys with full uniforms, including socks and belt clip (knife is optional), salute with the scout salute with the right hand, while holding their left hand over the flag "flying" backwards on their right sleeve. Instruct the boys to leave their hats in the car because this would cause undue hardship. If the boys are Venturing scouts using the military style salute, they remain silent but say the pledge out loud in their heads. The Boy scouts say it quietly enough without moving their lips that everyone will think they are silent but in reality they aren't.

 

Have fun and don't get hurt. Do not try this at home.

 

Stosh

 

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

You know, just as an aside, some of the bigger scandals in politics have "water" associated with them, from Watergate, to Whitewater and now to Backwater, memo to next President, what ever you do, dont touch anything or body that has "water" in the title...

[packsaddle]

OGE....where in the heck did THAT come from?

[FScouter]

Rinso white, Rinso bright ...

[GernBlansten]

At the risk of hijacking my own critically important thread, a Genoa is not a downwind sail. At least on competitive racing yachts. A genoa is an overlapping jib on a sloop. It extends from the bow of the boat past the mast and has a free floating clew (no boom). A downwind racing sail is a Spinnaker, a colorful parachute style sail that flys off the bow of the boat and is useless going upwind.

Now how a flag reacts to these sails is interesting. Remember, the flag must only fly on a halyard strung from a yardarm on the mast, or off a staff on the stern of the boat. Going upwind with a genoa, apparent wind, the wind you feel on the boat, will be forward of the mast and the flag in either location will be streaming magnificently toward the stern as it is true wind speed plus boat speed. Once the yacht reaches the upwind mark and turns downwind, she will drop the genoa, raise the spinaker and run with the wind to the leeward mark. In this mode, the flag will either be streaming forward toward the bow, or if the yacht has reached the same speed as the wind, hang flaccidly. Apparent wind will be near zero or slightly from astern. This can be annoying if you are standing near the stern and the flag is flicking around your head.

 

In either mode, hull speed will have no impact on the orientation of the colors. Hull speed is a term to describe the realistic maximum speed a yacht can go and is related to her length, draft, hull shape and wavelength of water at speed. Usually between 6 and 8 knots for most personal yachts.

 

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.