Class "A" Question

[Gunny2862]

I like a cool set of threads... when I'm just keepin' on truckin around...Here come da Judge, Here come da Judge...

 

If you have to ask...

[Gonzo1]

I've seen just about everything.

 

In our troop, it was "voted" that the "Class A" uniform would be shirt and neckerchief and then only worn on the first meeting of the month, other meetings would be class b t-shirt.

 

We were recently in the public eye on a military base. Class A uniforms to messhall, but as soon as they got out of the door, some of them started stripping, even the scoutmaster. I really can't figure it out. I asked him on the spot, what's the deal? why get out of your shirt (he doesn't own scout pants) and he said that the class B t-shirt is the uniform. I really disagree.

 

I hope he goes to WB someday, he'll have to get the pants.

[FScouter]

Poorly uniformed troops are led by leaders that don't like wearing the uniform. They indulge their dislike by having a "vote" to eliminate the parts they don't like.

[Oak Tree]

I agree with the sentiment that the adult leaders are role models, and the boys will take some cues from them. And if adults don't like the uniform, that will certainly carry over. But I find it to be an oversimplification to suggest that all poorly uniformed troops are led by leaders who don't like wearing the uniform. I myself always wear the uniform correctly, and I'm not aware of any of my other leaders who don't like the uniform, but that doesn't stop some of the boys from not liking it. I've talked with other leaders on this topic, and I'm sure we've had posts on it here, where leaders are trying to figure out how to get their boys to wear the uniform. I assume most of these leaders are well-meaning, like the uniform themselves, and are just trying to do better. My PLC was insistent on voting out the pants, regardless of my encouragement. I'm pretty confident that the vote was not about indulging my dislike of the pants, since I've continued to wear the pants. I've found that as the boys get older, they are quicker to remove the shirt at the earliest possible moment. And they like to run around with it unbuttoned, even though I've never seen an adult leader do that. We do correct them on that, and they comply, but it's predictable that it will happen again and again.

[FScouter]

"My PLC was insistent on voting out the pants, regardless of my encouragement. I'm pretty confident that the vote was not about indulging my dislike of the pants, since I've continued to wear the pants."

 

The PLC leaders, don't like pants so they "voted" them out. The Scoutmaster, instead of sitting quietly at the same table as this was going down, could have questioned the purpose of such a vote. What objective were the boy leaders trying to achieve with such a vote? Since there is no penalty for not wearing pants anyway, why vote them out? Could it be an attempt to remove a twinge of guilt from not wearing them?

 

And, the Scoutmaster could have also pointed out that the PLC has no jurisdiction anyway as to the makeup of the Boy Scout uniform, other than neckerchief and headwear selection. Nor can they vote to admit a girl to the troop, plan a skydiving trip, or eliminate the service hours requirement from the 1st class rank. Boy leaders, and adult leaders, can think up all kinds of ideas, even take votes, but the ideas must be within the framework of Scouting. Redefining the uniform is not within the discretion of a troop.

[BrentAllen]

If the boys want to vote on their uniform, they need to join Venturing. Otherwise, the only choice they have is for the hat and neckerchief. Troops do not have the authority to set their own policy regarding anything else.

 

There are 4 parts to a complete uniform - Scout shirt, Scout pants or Scout shorts, Scout belt, Scout socks. That is BSA policy, and it can't be modified by a Troop or Pack.

 

"Attitude reflects leadership," said Julius.

[evmori]

Gotta agree with Oak Tree about But I find it to be an oversimplification to suggest that all poorly uniformed troops are led by leaders who don't like wearing the uniform.

 

We as adult leaders should be setting the example. By doing so, doesn't guarantee everyone will follow it. We hope they do but since a uniform isn't required, setting the example is the best we can do.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Trevorum]

Gotta agree with Ed.

 

As SM, I was always in full uniform (even the red-top socks, which my lovely bride ridicules mercilessly) so as to set the standard for the fellows. Nonetheless, most boys wore jeans. Even my own sons would, as Oak Tree notes, "remove the shirt at the earliest possible moment. And they like to run around with it unbuttoned." Sigh.

 

As a parent, we learn to choose which battles are worth fighting. Same thing with being a Scouter. I'd rather keep a poorly uniformed boy in the program for another year or two than drive him away with a martinet's insistence on spit and polish. I see the uniform as a METHOD for achieving the aims. It's a proven method and it works most of the time. Nonetheless, it can easily become an aim in itself if we don't step back now and then and focus on the big picture of character development, participatory citizenship, and physical, mental and moral fitness.

 

Of course that's just my approach and others may see things differently.

[BrentAllen]

Trev,

I came from a Troop that was pretty demanding. And pretty challenging. My view is the boys will get away with whatever they can - they are always pushing the envelope. They won't tell you this, but they want to know where the boundaries are, and they do like to have them set. If you set the expectation that they will look like Scouts, it is my experience that they will follow. If they don't want to look like a Scout, then what are they doing in Scouting?

 

It comes down to respect and discipline. Those are certainly huge parts of citizenship and character development, at least in my book.

 

Whenever I hear or read any type of meaningful reflection about an individual in a leadership position (teacher, coach, Scouter), whether in a card, yearbook, retirement ceremony, Eagle COH, or funeral, I never hear "I really respected him because he made it easy for me." Think about it. The leaders you hear the most sincere comments about challenged and pushed the students/athletes/Scouts to do their best, do what is right and exceed their own expectations. Will a Scout despise or respect you for insisting that he wear the uniform correctly? They may grumble now, but it has been my experience they will respect you in the long run.

 

Convincing Scouts that wearing the correct uniform shows respect for the organization and to those who wore it before them may be a small thing to some. I see it as an integral piece to the much bigger picture.

[Trevorum]

Hi Brent,

I understand your point and I fully agree with you that kids will always push the boundaries! I have set high expectations for my own sons, and I am comfortable with enforcing BSA uniform discipline with them (by now they know that I do NOT tolerate untucked shirt tails) but I suppose I am less willing to play hardball on this issue with other fellows in the troop. I personally know of youngsters who have stopped participating in Scouting altogether merely because of the "dorky uniforms". Some of these fellows are lost causes, but others may be willing to compromise and stay in Scouting if they just don't have to wear those "totally gay" shorts and red top socks. (Note: the adjective is current street vernacular and does not reflect gender identity in any way.)

 

As I said, I would much rather give some slack on this issue and keep a young fellow coming for the adventure while we slyly provide him with opportunities to develop the character he'll need as an adult, than loose him forever because of a rigid insistance on applying a method that clearly doesn't work for him.

 

But again, that's my personal view.

[Gonzo1]

I like to switchback pants, haven't bought them yet, but I will when I need new pants / shorts.

 

I tried to bring two new boys to the troop last week. The dad said NO because he didn't want his boys wearing corny uniforms. These 2 kids play sports. I think there's nothing cornier than knickers (football pants). NOW who's corny?

[Trevorum]

Lest you brand me a lackadaisical slacker SM, let me also add that there are some issues in Scouting on which I give no quarter. For example, I have always been known as a harda** when it comes to flag ceremony protocol. NO talking in the ranks, NO slouching, NO fidgiting. Period.

[Beavah]

Yah, I think it's pretty clear that uniformin' is an adult thing we push on kids. Some adults are comfortable with that fight, others aren't. We could wear the thing all day every day, but it wouldn't get a single kid into green and khaki without some additional pushin'.

 

Hopefully all of us at some level realize it shouldn't be a fight - the uniform method of B-P was a uniform that shouted "fun and adventure" that kids wanted to wear, even though the shorts sometimes scandalized those of the day. I often wish we had a uniform like that again; one that lit up kids' eyes, spoke of fun and adventure, and was a bit "on the edge."

 

As far as examples go, I gotta admit I find nuthin' quite as ridiculous as a "well-rounded" Scouter stuffed into the old-style shorts with those green and red socks. Yah, ain't nuthin' quite like that to make kids and adults run screamin' lest anybody see them. Not quite what we have in mind in terms of "bein' an example."

 

Beavah

 

 

 

[Gold Winger]

"What the heck, the BSA uses the terms epaulets when they are really shoulder straps (epaulets are the fringe things that are held on by shoulder straps.)"

 

The fashion world calls them epaulettes. Epaulette is French for "little shoulder" and generally refers to any strap or strap-like item on the shoulder. Naval officers don't wear epaulettes on their whites, those are "shoulder boards."

[1Vigil]

Should it be Class A or Class B or should it be a field uniform?

 

Should we call it Happy Holidays or Merry Christmas?

 

Should we say Bless America or GOD Bless America?

 

I don`t know about the rest of you........... but I am going to call it CLASS A and B. No matter how you spell scouts............... its always a scout. No matter how much white wash you put on it.