Neckerchief Rant

[Bob White]

Oh My!

The neckerchief changed from functional to decorative about 15 years before the de la Renta designed Uniform. I cannot believe that scouters are still bemoaning that change for nearly 40 years. I thought it was weird when scouters still complained 25 years after their councils merged.

 

Think of tears that must be getting shed over the loss of spats!

[phazelag]

Bob,

 

I wore the neckerchief over my collarless neckerchief about 25 years ago and my oldest son wore it over a collar tucked in about 8 years ago. Now my youngest son goes to a pack where there seems to be neckerchief Chaos. I think taking pride in your uniform is an important lesson that scouts learn and to let it turn into this, seems counter productive to why many of us hove a our kids join the scouts. Letting the neckerchief turn into a sloppy mess is the same as letting a teen-ager wear his pants below his behind. When it was over the neck, the kids could play and be kids and it still looked relatively uniform and neat. Maybe a little pull and tuck and it looked reasonable again.

 

Now with it under the collar the boys are always in varying degrees of sloppy. The time lag in noticing these things comes from people who were scouts and then havent seen a scout until their kids become scouts.

 

And to those who saw my post as an attack on the women, you read my intentions completely wrong. The women are stepping up and I admire them. And I am the assistant den leader now. I will take on more responsibility as positions open up. I cant just up and take over. Other than the uniform, they are a very good pack and den. This was a uniform forum so thats what I was talking about. And if a man wrote the current manual I am guessing he wrote it based on what he saw as a trend with the uniforms, instead of looking at how it should be. And no matter what we shouldnt be afraid to fix something, so many of us can see that it is plainly sloppy.

 

 

Z

 

[Nessmuk]

Phazelag,

 

I'm with you.. and you are showing plain everyday courage to stand up to those who propagate nonsense and the "it's-all-relative" attitude about the scout uniforms.. It's sadly not just about the uniform as you will find (or may already see).. The uniform is not the only method or facet of Scouting that is being eaten out from inside the movement - dramatic? crazy? Read-on sir. Continue to see the number of "Scouters" that roast you for standing up against what's "plainly sloppy" and "not being afraid to fix something".

 

About now some furry little brown feller is due to enter from stage left (way left) and rant about adult leaders livin' out der' fantasies through scoutin' an makin' into sum sert' of militry trainin' ..

[Bob White]

Everything in perspective Nessmuk,

 

Wearing blue jeans with the official shirt is sloppy. Wearing prohibited District patches is sloppy. Not tucking in your shirt is sloppy. Covering a BSA red JAckshirt with patches is sloppy. Wearing a sleeve full of quality unit awards is sloppy. Not following uniform policies of the BSA is sloppy.

 

Wearing the neckerchief under the collar is a BSA approved option for units that choose to wear the neckerchief.

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Slouchhat]

Hello,

being a supporter of the neckerchief as both a practical and traditional item, I reckon wear of the neckerchief is optional in BSA to begin with, but for those who want to wear it, it is optional to wear it over or under the collar.

 

As for the uniforms, if I compare the BSA khaki shirts and green trousers with the appearance of most German troops, even the sloppiest BSA troop looks a lot sharper than most German troops.

My troop is being regarded with obscurity as the kids really wear a uniform (khaki shirts and khaki BDU trousers)and not a mix of uniform items and sundry "civilian" items.

I think pride in the uniform and the title of "scout" is being reflected when they deal with the public and other scouts.

 

best regards,

Volker

[Bob White]

Technically wearing the neckerchief "over the collar" is not correct. You must wear the neckerchief under the collar OR roll the collar inside the shirt and simply wear the neckerchief around the neck (with the top button unbuttoned).

 

Perhaps if you wore the entire uniform the unit would not be quite so "obscure"?

BW

[phazelag]

I guess I should mention my son is in cub scouts and he is a tiger cub. So I am guessing for that the neckerchief is not optional, but I am not sure. So I was seeing Tigers though Webelos all wearing them, but not one looked like another.

[Gold Winger]

It may be an approved option but it looks horrible.

[phazelag]

Yes I did see the rule about rolling the collar under and that actually may be the problem right there. No one wants to do that, for comfort reasons. But on the boys in cub scouts at that size the neckerchief covers almost the whole collar anyway. But the uniform is the uniform. My son is not old enough for Boy Scouts yet and my Older son was in BSA while I was in the Army and unfortunately I was deplyed so much that I was not as involved. So I dont remember what they did.

 

So I cant really comment on the Boy Scout age boys. I am only talking about Cubs where the neckerchief seems to be a big part of the uniform.

 

Z

[Bob White]

Your problem in the pack is not due to the BSA uniofrm methods but far more likely to the lack of training among the Pack leadership.

Here is what the BSA's Cub Scout Leader's Book says about the wearingthe Cub Neckerchiefs.

 

1) Fold the long edge over several small flat folds to about 6 inches from the tip of the neckerchief. A tight fold prevents gathering around the neck and is more efficient than rolling or twirling.

 

2) Place the neckerchief arond the neck over the turned under collar of the uniform shirt; or wear under the shirt collar if desired.

 

3) Draw the neckerchief slide over the ends and adjust to fit snugky. Let the neckerchief ends hang loose.

4) The portion of the neckerchief showing below the back of the neck should measuere no more than 6 inches.

 

I believe you will find this same information in the Cub rank handbooks.

 

Whether the scouts wear the neckerchief blow the collar ar over the turned-under collar are to be determined by the unit and followed by the entire unit.

 

I really sounds like what you have is a leadership pproblem more so than a problem with the BSA uniforming.

 

[phazelag]

Bob,

 

That is great information and I agree about the leadership issue. And from what I can tell from talking to the leaders, All the moms like under the collar and all the dads like over the collar and there are more mothers than dads. But all those mothers kids look sloppy, because they are in proper uniform, but the collars are flipped up, or only one collar is on top, or etc. So I will wait until I have been around longer and have proven myself as a valuable contributor and then bring it up.

 

Z

[kahits]

Tomorrow night is our troop Court of Honor. As I have posted, previously, we are still a small, struggling, unit and have 2 scouts up for their Star rank (my son is one of them) as well as crossing over 2 new scouts. As luck would have it, we have 2 of our Eagle scouts (with 2006 & 2007 EBOR's) who's parents have not taken the time to organize their individual ceremonies,and have requested to have theirs with the troop.

 

It's been two years since my son and I joined the troop, with only one, unissued, neckerchief left when we arrived, so he got to wear a borrowed neckerchief for his crossover. I spent many months of 2006 talking with my DE and the troop committee, and finally got some new neckerchiefs made. They are large, square neckerchiefs, and can not be worn under the collar unless they are rolled, which was not the intention. They cover the collar, easily, and even have a extension on the edge binding to tie a good turn knot at the ends. A former SM is coming (2 SM's ago) and I'm curious what he is going to think. It is also our 70th anniversary (I just got the new unit number with the 70 year VB) in terms of continuous recharters, but the first eagle scout in the troop was 13 years before that charter year, so the troop is at least 15 years older, but not continuously chartered.

 

Reading these comments reminds me to make sure the boys look sharp, and perhaps even have them tuck under their collars for this one. The previous SM was a pretty regimented guy, which I am not, but we'll see how it goes. I'm enjoying this discussion, because my son wore his collar tucked under the 4 years of cub scouts (his Tiger year was still the orange tee), and he loved it. I couldn't make the other boys do it, but he led by example, and continues to this day.

[Bob White]

Moms and Dads don't run Scout units, Scout leaders do. This is a decision for the Pack committee committee chair and Cubmaster to make.

 

I recommndyou contact one or the other and ask what is the Pack policy for wearing the neckerchief correctly so that your son will be in a correct uniform.

 

You could then contact the Tiger Den Leader and offer to do a lesson for the Den on how to fold and wear their neckerchief so that they can look handsome in their uniforms.

[Lisabob]

You could indeed do as Bob White suggested at the end of his previous post and (if done lightly and with a sense of humor) that might even go over well.

 

But I have to add...you are talking about FIRST GRADERS here! When's the last time you saw an entire group of 1st graders with shoes tied, shirts tucked in, noses wiped, hair neatly combed and (yes) neckers worn correctly, who stayed that way for more than about 10 minutes at a time? While I don't wish to neglect uniforming, there are times when one has to choose one's battles with a bit of care.

 

 

[packsaddle]

I see them every time I pass a school that requires uniforms, in this and in other countries. And I think they look great.

I've even seen it before, back when I was CM, in this cub scout pack..my daughter referred to them as the 'blue meanies', heh, heh. I really miss the cubs.