Do training patches expire with the certificate.. as in removing them from the uniform?

[kahits]

I have 2 years left on my National Camp School certificate. I was told by a scouter that when that certificate expires, I will have to remove that patch from my uniform. One of our ASM's still wears his from when he was a youth, and ran a Scout camp with the NCS training. It's ironic, because the guy who told me this has about 15 knots on his uniform, some of which go back probably 15-20 years in his scouter career. He looks silly with all that on his uniform, but he obviously likes having it when he choses to wear that particular uniform. I thought I would ask here.

[emb021]

what patch are you refering to? The NCS patch? Not ever attending NCS, this is something I would think they (those who run NCS) would be able to answer. Does the NCS patch signify that you hold a (current) NCS certificate, or that you had (at some time) attending NCS? To me, depending on if its one or the other would answer your question. I will take a look at what it says in the Insignia Guide (which doesn't always have the right answer) to see if it notes any restriction on wearing the NCS patch.

 

Uh, what's wrong with someone wearing 15 knots? If it earned them, it doesn't matter when they were earned. Nothing says you are restricted to only wearing a certain number or only those earned recently. Me, I have 4 knots, which has taken me about 25 years to earn.

[kahits]

Thanks, Emb... my comment on his knotzies is that it seemed ironic that he would say something has to be taken off, when he has the uniform with no room for the world scouting emblem. I have a picture of Roy Williams with just two awards on his uniform, which I found inspiring from my observation. It's up to each individual, but his comment just struck me as ringing hollow. That is all I meant by that comment.

[FScouter]

"I will take a look at what it says in the Insignia Guide (which doesn't always have the right answer)"

 

Do you mean the Insignia Guide has wrong information, or that it doesn't have the answer to all your questions, or ?

[Oak Tree]

All the Insignia Guide says is this:

"National Camping School emblem, cloth, No. 00276, council Scouter, right pocket; staff emblem, cloth, No. 00277, Scouter, right pocket; jacket patch, No. 00278, centered on back of jacket."

 

There are no special notes the way there are for the Trained emblem, for example. But it's hard to read too much into that.

 

To FScouter's other question - I'll say that the Insignia Guide has a number of omissions, and does not answer all the questions I think it could. But I'm not really aware of any place where the guide is actively incorrect (shows different policy than other official documents), except for where recent changes have been made. And there is that one misleading entry. I've got a whole bunch of annotations in my copy...I'd be happy to proofread the next edition.

 

Oak Tree

[epalmer84]

> Roy Williams with just two awards on his uniform

 

Professionals were not eligible for most awards until the mid-90s. They are still not eligible for anything they have done as a professional, as most awards are based on volunteer service. The Professional Training Award is the only award specific to professionals.

 

Our DE is the only professional here with a DAM, SB and a number of training wards; she was awarded all of these before she became a professional.

 

http://www.citilink.com/~blkeagle/knoindex.htm

 

Ed

[acco40]

As others have implied, there are training patches (i.e. I have one from Philmont Training Center) and there is a "TRAINED" patch that should be part of a set - trained for the position patch immediately above it. The TRAINED patch does not have an expiration date except for the fact that if one's position changes, the trained patch should only remain on the uniform it one is trained for the new position. The other patches, for example if there was a trained patch for CPR/AED (I don't know of any) probably should not be worn if one is not "current" with that training.(This message has been edited by acco40)

[John-in-KC]

Yes, but I also know Professionals who:

 

- Have earned Arrow of Light as a youth...

- Are Eagle Scouts

- Have earned their Religious Award...

- Are/have been Scoutmasters in their own home Troops...

 

I understand both the clean and the "full chest" versions of the story.

 

Are we saying Professionals should not wear what they have legitimately earned?

[emb021]

"Do you mean the Insignia Guide has wrong information, or that it doesn't have the answer to all your questions, or ?"

 

I don't know about wrong info, but I have found that in some cases the information is...incomplete.

 

For instance, the IG is NOT the source for correct Sea Scout uniforming info.

 

You kind of have to learn its 'language' to fully understand it. Some people get a bit confused by what it 'says'. A big mistake people make is taking the attitude of 'where does it say I can't wear X'. The Insignia Guide is more geared to who can wear what where, but often times this isn't as clear as it should be. I've run into a few bad uniforming that is due to misreading the IG.

 

I, too, would love to be involved in a proof reading of the next edition... Probably never happen.

 

[scoutldr]

"Yes, but I also know Professionals who:

 

- Have earned Arrow of Light as a youth...

- Are Eagle Scouts

- Have earned their Religious Award...

- Are/have been Scoutmasters in their own home Troops..."

 

I would say that Scouters can wear anything that they have legitimately earned and are entitled to. However a fresh-caught DE may not want to come across looking like a North Korean General, and his/her boss (SE) may impart some guidance on that. Perhaps maintain two shirts if they are also volunteering in a unit.

 

[dancinfox]

A National Camp School patch is not a patch denoting you are trained in NCS, but a tempory patch to be worn on the right pocket as any other tempory patch would be worn. The training card you received at the end of the course showing the date you were trained and the date your training runs out is the offical recognition of your training. As with any tempory patch, you can wear the NCS patch as long as you want to.

David Harrison

Council Commissioner

Lake Huron Area Council