Adult Patrol Patches

[dave.424]

Our new scoutmaster has suggested that the uniformed program Adults form a patrol to demonstrate good patrol practices to the boys. I was just curious if other have experience with this. I'm a parent of a just scout who has just recently bridge over from Webelos, so I'm just looking for opinions of other folks.

 

The patch he had is an owl, but it has an orage border (which made me think of Hooters). I'm not sure where he got them, since I thought that offical patrol emblems had to have the standard tan / khaki background and border.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Thanks,

 

Dave

[ScoutNut]

He may be demonstrating good patrol practices, but he is also demonstrating bad uniforming practices.

 

There are no OFFICIAL BSA Adult Patrol patches. There are plenty of UNOFFICIAL badges of all sorts out there, including Adult Patrol Badges, however it is against BSA policy to wear these on the uniform.

 

 

[Trevorum]

ScoutNut is correct. However, it is a policy most often honored in the breach. Around here, most of the troops that are large enough to have more than a half-dozen ASMs have adult patrols.

[John-in-KC]

I am dead set against adult patrol patches. Patrol patches are articles of the youth uniform. Paraphrasing, I believe the Uniform Guide says "Adults shall not wear youth specific articles of uniform."

 

My reasons for this are personal in nature.

 

In my WB course, we affixed our Patrol patches to the reverse of our leather name tags.

[moxieman]

When I was active at the troop level (rather then District), our troop had an adult patrol. However, as others have said, we did not have a patrol patch. We had a patrol yell, "Where's the Coffee!", but that's about it.

[mrclark]

He may be demonstrating good patrol practices, but he is also demonstrating bad uniforming practices.

 

Ya, it just depends which matters more, eh? It seems several folks have already pointed out the "breaking the rules" point of view, and no doubt my post will be followed up with several more people accusing me of breaking policy...

 

Personally, I tend to find adults who act like scouts to be somewhat goofy. It seems to be an odd feature of the American scouting system. I suspect the uniform policy in question was put in place to quietly discourage that sort of behavior. Having said that, learning by example works best from the top down. If the Scoutmaster's goal is to promote patrol cohesiveness, it seems logical to start by having the adults behave like a patrol, including, perhaps, wearing a patrol patch. It all depends - is an imperfect uniform the cost of achieving a working patrol system? I'd tend to say yes, and your scoutmaster seems to think so too. After all, uniforming and patrols are both methods, not aims or ends in themselves, and it's completely normal for a particular troop to favor one over another.

 

If this really irks you, seeing as how you're a new parent, my advice would be to let this one go, eh? At least for a few months until you know the troop better. Nothing's more frustrating for an experienced SM than a new parent who comes in second guessing their decisions... Instead, ask the SM what you can do to help.

[dave.424]

All, thanks for your input. That's why I find these forums so useful.

 

mrclark, I am not irked or bothered at this decision. I simply wanted to seek out others' opinions. The SM is new and although his older son has been in the troop for about a year, he had been more involved the pack that both of our sons were in until April. I've definitely made myself available. My former WL uniform has been calling out to me to get back in the action and I think I'll be serving as an ASM / Patrol Guide. SM have a briefing at the committee meeting on his vision for the troop and I definitely think it was great stuff. As I said, just putting out feelers.

 

Dave

 

[t158sm]

The patrol emblem is not part of the adult uniform! That being said many Wood Badgers around here wear their emblem under the right pocket flap. Scouts keep asking me about that Owl under mine. I just give em a confused look and reply "What Owl." Nothing wrong with a little fun. Most Scouts figure it out fairly quickly.

Watch out for the uniform police though.

 

[SR540Beaver]

You can argue about whether or not to wear an illegal adult patrol patch. Our adult patrol is the Duds.....as in a dud firecracker which is exactly what our patch is. The more important point is that the adults acting as a patrol sets an example for the boys. I served another troop where the SM built a Taj Mahal for he and his wife on one cold winter campout. The boys felt it was unfair for them to have all of these creature comforts while they slept on the ground. Rank and age does have their priveleges, but fair is fair. We shouldn't ask them to do things we are not willing to do. We set up tents and patrol areas just like they do. We collect grub money, shop, make a menu and cook just like they do. We have a duty roster just like they do. The boys don't look over at the Duds and see them lounging in chairs with a cold soda in their hand and a radio listening to the game. The one complaint we get from the boys is how good we eat. That is when we take the opportunity to tell them that we collect the same amount of money they do and use the same stoves, pots, pans and dutch ovens they do. Anything we cook and eat is available to them too if they will plan it and make it happen. An adult patrol is a great teaching tool and example.

 

It can be done with or without a patch.

[GNX Guy]

What about in the Cub Scout program. Den Leaders wear the "Den 11" patch or the "Alligator" den patch?

 

Joe

[infoscouter]

"What about in the Cub Scout program. Den Leaders wear the "Den 11" patch or the "Alligator" den patch? "

 

Huh? I've been involved in Cub Scouting for 17 years at a pack, district and council level. I have *never* seen an adult Cub Scouter wear a den patch to which s/he was not entitled (by virtue of being a den leader).

 

This must be a local practice of some sort.

 

[dave.424]

John-in-KC: Uniform Guide says "Adults shall not wear youth specific articles of uniform."

GNX Guy: Den Leaders wear the "Den 11" patch or the "Alligator" den patch?

infoscouter: I have *never* seen an adult Cub Scouter wear a den patch to which s/he was not entitled (by virtue of being a den leader).

 

infoscouter, I think that was exactcly what GNX guy was saying. Den Leaders wear the same den patch their scouts wear. Although, I've always seen that as standard practice, it seems to conflict with the specific reg that John-in-KC sited. I imagine that it must be specified somewhere as an exception.

[John-in-KC]

http://www.scouting.org/forms/34281.pdf ... female

 

http://www.scouting.org/forms/34284.pdf ... male

 

These are the inspection sheets, straight off the National Council website.

 

WOMEN are authorized Den Numbers on their uniform, by picture and narrative. Anyone care to bet this is a holdover from "Den Mother" days (who else here had their Mom as their Den Mother ... and Mom had the complete Den Mother's uniform!!! )

 

MEN do not show Den Numbers on their uniform, but the narrative is "Den numeral, if applicable, is worn 2 inches below seam."

 

[acco40]

Cub Scout den leaders have different uniforms than Scoutmasters (SMs), Assistant Scoutmasters (SAs), or Boy Scout Committee members (MCs). Proper uniforming states that adult leaders do not wear patrol patches (neither does the SPL or ASPL(s) for that matter) the reason being is that they are not in a patrol.

 

Now, we do use the patrol method for adults, as a teaching tool, in our troop. At summer camp, the council offers an unofficial "Scoutmaster merit badge" which can be earned by adults at summer camp. It is a patrol patch with a rocking chair. We use this as a patrol patch. Now, I own multiple uniform shirts and I wear the ones with a patrol patch on some of the outings. For COHs and other more "official" events, I always follow (to the best of my knowledge) proper uniform techniques. Somewhat hypocritical yes but just like allowing my oldest son, the current SPL to wear Scouts Canada shoulder loops (Beavers on a light blue background) on his uniform you've got to pick your battles. [He asked to wear them once and got such a positive response from WB Beavers that he wears them as much as he can now.)

[infoscouter]

"infoscouter, I think that was exactcly what GNX guy was saying. Den Leaders wear the same den patch their scouts wear. Although, I've always seen that as standard practice, it seems to conflict with the specific reg that John-in-KC sited. I imagine that it must be specified somewhere as an exception."

 

Oh - I get it. DUH. I thought it was a reference to some "adult" den, for CMs, etc. Sorry - space cadet day, I guess.