BS Leaders wearing Cub Scout Leader Knots

[scoutldr]

Gotta agree with GW. I wear the AOL, Youth Religious award (Pro Deo et Patria), Eagle, Cub Scouter Award, Cubmaster Award, Scouter Training Award, and District Award of Merit. I have just submitted my paperwork for the District Committee Key (which I earned 3 years ago, but the paperwork got lost - twice). When I sit on an Eagle BOR, I make sure my uniform is complete, including service stars and OA "pocket rocket". For District and Council Dinners, we are encouraged to wear "full dress", including medals.

 

Bottom line, it's my opinion that what people choose to wear on their uniform is a personal choice, as long as it's BSA authorized and they have earned the right to wear it. If someone doesn't like it or think it's "tacky", that's their problem. I have more of a problem with scouts and scouters who wear their OA flap, but have never darkened the door of an OA meeting or event since their ordeal.

[LongHaul]

Unless I'm mistaken one should only wear an OA flap if one's current dues are paid in full.

LongHaul

[gwd-scouter]

Most guys (youth and adults) I've known over the years that went through OA ordeal and got their pocket flap, sew it on and never do anything with the OA again. They probably aren't even aware that they should remove the flap if they don't pay their annual dues.

[Joni4TA]

I guess it's up to the individual and where their taste lies, whether they wear 4-6 knots or 12.

How many knots do I currently have? No one has ever put me in for a knot. All these years (and still counting).. not one! I refuse to put myself in for a knot - I just won't do it. My husband was military for 26yrs, and we moved around a lot. For some reason I want to believe that I was just never any one place long enough for anyone else to notice my contributions. **shrug**How many of those have I earned do I wear? NONE

[gwd-scouter]

Joni, regarding your post "No one has ever put me in for a knot." I don't know how other units handle it, but in the days when I was a Cubmaster, I gave each of the new Den Leaders the progress card for whatever training knot they could earn. It was up to them to fill out the dates for training completed, tenure completed, etc. Then they would give it back to me and I'd turn it in to our District Advancement Chairman. Training knots were presented to adults during Pack meetings.

 

Now that I am a Scoutmaster, I handle it the same way with the other adult leaders in the Troop. Hand them the form for Scouter Training Award and let them know to fill it out when they complete training, tenure, etc.

 

Perhaps no one in your group knew how to go about earning the knots. Perhaps, as you say, you moved around so much that you couldn't complete the tenure requirements.

 

Other knots are awarded by the District and Council (District Award of Merit, Silver Beaver) rather than earned by checking off boxes on a form. Your name must be put into nomination for those awards.

 

As others have pointed out, it is certainly a personal choice about wearing knots. I like the knots. I don't care if someone chooses to wear every one they've been given or none. Their choice. Sometimes it is a great ice-breaker when meeting a Scouter and he/she has an unfamiliar knot on his/her shirt.

[KurtB]

I have been awarded 4 knots (soon to be 5).

 

AOL

Youth Religious

Cub Scouter

DAM

Cub Master (to be awarded in February)

 

Currently, I wear 3 (AOL, YR, CS).

 

I have been asked many times by new cub scouts and even a handful of leaders what that "purple knot" is for. It gives me a great opportunity to discuss the program, my faith, and the "Duty to God" portion of the Cub Scout Promise.

 

On my District shirt, which was just purchased, I still have to sew on the patches. I know that my DAM knot will be worn. I have not decided yet if any of the other knots will be displayed, but I am pretty sure that purple knot will make an appearance.

 

 

Kurt

 

[Gold Winger]

What is meant by "simple"? What is bad taste? I consider wearing shorts that are two sizes too small and a shirt with the buttons popping to be in bad taste. Or a hirsute leader who doesn't wear an undershirt and has hair poking out between his buttons to be in bad taste.

 

Simple? We start off with four patches on the left sleeve and two on the right. Add the OA flap. Put on the purple WOSM emblem. You're already at eight patches. That's pretty unsimple.

 

Beavah said "Dat's why in most publication photos, you'll find fairly simple and "clean" adult uniforms, not bespangled by multiple rows of knots."

 

I've been looking through my SM Handbook and as far as I could tell, all but one have knots. One is wearing nine knots and his beads (I used be a hamster and a good ol' hamster too). If BSA didn't want adults to wear knots, they wouldn't hold up these guys as shining examples of Scoutmasters.

 

Of course, one could argue that since so many in BSA publications have patches in the wrong places, they want us to do that too.

 

Most of the time in BSA pubs, the uniforms are unadorned because they are brand new. Look closely, the pants are usually not hemmed and the shirts look like they came right off the hanger.

Just my thoughts.(This message has been edited by Gold Winger)

[eghiglie]

As I learned you are allowed to wear what you have earned as long as it looks nice. So even a district commish can wear a Webelos Den Leader knot.

 

I was a cub and a boy scout as a youth, have an AoL and made it to 1st class. After being a pack committe memer, den leader, earning an adult religous award and founding a Troop I managed to have earned 6 knots plus a set of beads.

 

When I became a SM I made one shirt with all the knots (a dress shirt) and another without. Most of the time I wear the shirt with no knots and leave the beads home. I'd rather just do the best I can then to live up to what's on the shirt. I also have another shirt for just campouts that is "plain".

 

Besides being in a new Troop all the other leaders have no knots so I don't want to "boast".

 

For CoH and other special events I wear the shirt that has all the knots, service pins, Natl Camping School patch and beads.

 

The only optional thing that I added to all the shirts is a Bobwhite patrol patch as I'm really proud of that critter! I found some red and black bobwhites and wear those.

 

I am proud of my two little beads but I've worked around machinery and other mechanisms all my life that necklaces and jewelry bother me as I worry if the things will get caught in something. For this reason I don't even like to wear hanging patches.

 

 

[Jeffrey H]

"Besides being in a new Troop all the other leaders have no knots so I don't want to "boast".

 

I like your attitude. Keep up the good work. I have "plain" uniform shirt as well just for campouts. I only have the basic patches on it including my position. I enjoy wearing it because I can be in uniform and not worry about getting it dirty.

 

What annoys me most are folks that wear their OA lodge patches and I KNOW that they are not active dues paying members.

[WVCubDad]

Currently I've earned one (TDL) and been awarded another (DAM). I haven't received the TDL knot yet but the DAM is centered above my pocket.

 

My question is this -- do I move it over slightly once I get the TDL knot or do I just add the new knot to the left or right of the DAM? I've seen it both ways and am curious as to the proper way to do it.

 

Of course the third option is to work hard and earn another knot and then just figure out which knot I want to wear closest to my heart, LOL.

 

John

Assistant Cubmaster

Pack 13

Shenandoah Area Council

[KurtB]

There is nothing in the insignia guide that will tell you in what order to arrange the knots, or the required placement for fewer than 3 knots (other than they are placed above the left pocket flap). I would give you "chapter and verse" but I don't carry my insignia guide to work with me most days. Most commonly I think you will see 2 knots centered over the pocket flap.

 

One of the leaders that would come in contact with from time to time did not center his 2 knots, and if anybody asked about it would just tell people either "I hate to sew, and this way when I earn my 3rd, I don't have to re-sew anything", or "That spot is a reminder to keep working at it until I earn another knot".

 

Kurt

[Lugnuts Dad]

Here's an idea I haven't seen yet to solve the knots on the uniform issue. National could authorize a special merit badge-type sash (longer than the youth version for those of us who have had too many dump cakes). Knot only could we put our knots on it, but it would put more silver in their coffers.

Seriously, though, why is this such a big deal? The way I see it, those knots are our version of merit badges. We should be proud to wear them. Granted, our scouts should really only wear their sashes for special events, but would anyone here actually discourage a scout from putting a MB that he EARNED on his sash? It's the same principle, the boys just have a "detachable" part for their uniform.

I personally like the idea of having a "dress" shirt and a "play" shirt, but I think we should let the kids see our knots at every possible opportunity, not just BORs. Most of our boys like to earn/collect patches of every sort so we should encourage them by example. It promotes a higher level of activity in the program (isn't that a GOOD thing?). Keep the plain shirt for when you are physically active (camping, hiking, et cetera).

Right now, my shirts are unadorned, but I have earned the Cub Scouter Award. Just need to turn in the paperwork. I will be putting that knot on all 5 of my shirts (1 LS & 1 SS for Troop and Pack each, plus 1 silver for District Comedy.. er.. Committee). And, yes, if I eventually earn the District Committee Key, that will go on my Pack shirt as well. If our boys (and girls for you Venturing leaders) can't see that we're proud of our own achievements, how can we sincerely tell them that they should be proud of themselves for a job well done? Billy the Bear Scout might think "If Cubmaster Joe doesn't want to wear his Den Leader award, why should I wear my Wolf Arrow Points?" Is this an attitude we want to promote?(This message has been edited by Lugnuts Dad)(This message has been edited by Lugnuts Dad)