The Uniform Method is an OUTDOOR Method!

[Kudu]

With the introduction of the BSA Switchback pants and the reported sightings of 4-Bead Wood Badge types actually wearing them, it is no longer an impossible dream to imagine the BSA producing an outdoor Uniform.

 

In a real Scouting association, the term outdoor uniform is redundant :-)

 

As I see it, the priorities of a Scout Uniform are:

 

1) Practical outdoor wear: We caught a big break with the introduction of the Switchbacks. I've been using similar nylon cut-offs as my Scout pants now for ten years. They are remarkably practical for most Scout outings, and reasonably acceptable on the extreme margins (swim trunks/snow pants). The only thing they are especially bad at is bushwhacking through thorn bushes :-) I have not tried out the breathable nylon BSA Action Shirt, but I sewed a set of patches on a similar shirt ten years ago and it has worked well from backpacking in the summer to a layer in the winter.

 

2) Scream HIGH ADVENTURE! when worn indoors: The reason that boys join Scouting is to go camping. High adventure clothing keeps the Promise of Scouting before us at all times.

 

3) Reinforce the other Methods of Scouting: A Scout Uniform should indicate a Scout's Position of Responsibility, his Rank, his Patrol, Council, etc.

 

4) Classical look: Form should follow outdoor function, but with practical eye on tradition.

 

I am in general agreement with Gonzo1's comments in the Factory Scouting discussion, except for the idea of bringing back the colored background POR and Rank badges. I put these on the same level as the hideous dress-designer red shoulder loops (the buttons on the epaulets also make the shirts impractical for backpacking). I think Scout Badges should be the same color as the shirt as much as possible so as not to stand out from a distance.

 

I especially like his term Elvis collars. I do believe that the collars of a Scout Uniform should be designed to fit under a Scout Neckerchief (the most universal symbol of Scouting in the entire world) even if the Neckerchief is not commonly used.

 

B-P designed the Neckerchief to keep the sun from burning the back of the neck, and I am told that it keeps the body cooler in hot weather by wicking the sweat away from the body. Neckerchiefs seem to go in and out of favor with the Scouts in our Troop, but I can't say I ever enjoy wearing them in the summer.

 

Kudu

 

[Trevorum]

It's a darned shame that neckerchiefs have gone out of fashion. If ever there was functional element of the Scout uniform, it's the neckerchief, modeled on the cowboy bandanna. Here in Texas, I wear a bandanna outside in the summer as a practical element of everyday wear. Shades the neck and, moistened, keeps you nicely cool.

 

(Did I mention how practical a broad-brimmed hat is?)

[Gonzo1]

So we disgree on patch background color, big deal.

 

I like the newer broad brimmed hat, I wear it alot, in non-scout clothes too. Campaign hat is OK, but required too much work to keep flat.

 

I read in another thread that Stetson is coming up ith 12 or 14 different hat styles for BSA. 14? sheesh.

 

[Stosh]

I have always wondered why everyone goes to such great lengths to make sure the brim on the campaign hat is flat. All historical evidence shows differently.

 

I wear the campaign hat with curves and the expedition hat and love them both.

[prairie]

Kudu, replace "outdoor" with "field" and I can whole heartedly agree with you, in my mind outdoor might mean suitable for walking from your vehicle to a building while field means an extended stay in the woods, grasslands or other wild area.

 

BTW, my secret wish is supply would offer at special order a collarless short sleeve shirt patterened on the old green version with the renforced neck, yoke and button area, and cut in a way that your shirt won't come untucked when you put your hands over your head, made of a fabric suited for hot weather.

Maybe the boys won't want them but easy to overheat adults like me would buy two. An updated fullsize neckershief made of a strong wicking fabric would complete things.

 

PSS; doing away with the eppeletts would demilitrize the uniform, reduce costs or allow value adding features to return, remove visual clutter and raise functionablility. Those that like them have plenty in the supply system to stock up with.

 

Yes I like my switchbacks!

[Gonzo1]

Regarding the shirts, one thing we can do is turn the over-sized Elvis collars under. Then put the neckerchief on and go. We used to do that before. I've never like the eppaulets and should loops. Webelos should stay in blue uniforms until they cross over also.

 

Gonzo1

[Lisabob]

Gonzo I think the webelos option is based on pragmatism. By the time kids get to the start of the Webelos II year most will have outgrown the blue shirt they've had since wolves (and now, maybe since tigers!). Buying another blue shirt for the few months they're still in the cub program is a little silly when they could buy a tan shirt and keep it right through to boy scouts. At any rate I know that's how most of the parents I knew in cubs thought about it. I was happy when this change occurred.

 

Beyond that though, sure, I would be happy to see a more functional shirt as described above by others.

[prairie]

Latest sewing project involves changing a BDU khaki/tan shirt to a prototype field shirt. BTW finding a plain shirt of that color is tough, most are camo pattern, the rest are green, blue or black but the 4th place I tried had a few, one in my size.

Plans involve changing the upper pockets to the pattern currently in use on uniform shirts, changing the front so that the buttons show, using a 3" spacing instead of 3 3/8 for strength and better looks, innerfacing will be added for the same reason. The BSA pants button from the 1970s would be ideal but I don't have a supply of them, current shirt buttons would work but seem a little small to me.

I have no plans at this time for the lower pockets, most I would do is change the cover flap to match the uppers.

No patchs, pins or other such items will be attached cept maybe my name over a pocket. The idea is to stir the grey cells of others about what could be.

 

[Jeffrey H]

Prairie stated:  remove visual clutter and raise functionablility.

 

Good point.  I dont have any objections to overall look of the uniform shirt, but I do think we over-decorate the shirt to point of ridiculous, especially adult leaders.  An over-decorated shirt is NOT functional for active outdoor wear and certainly does not function as a field uniform.

 

My proposal:

 

Reduce the size of major patches (council, unit, position) to one-half of current size.  They are too big and they scream out like a loud billboard.

Remove the trained patch and the quality unit patch.  Who really cares anyway?  Nothing wrong with these recognitions, just not on the uniform.   

Limit the number of adult award knots to three.  If you have more than three, wear only the ones that are most important to you.

Limit the total number of patches on a uniform to about eight Council, Position, Unit, OA Lodge, Flag, and 3 Knots.

The World Crest is a nice patch and will stay, but thats debatable was well.

 The whole idea is too keep the shirt looking like a field shirt and not junked up.

 

[SR540Beaver]

prairie,

 

You might be reinventing the wheel. Propper is a manufacturer of BDU's for the military, police, etc. and also offer their products to the public. They make a variety of BDU clothing in several blends and colors. Take a look here:

 

https://www.epropper.com/categoryattribute/13

 

www.propper.com is their entry portal. epropper is where you can buy their products directly.

 

[prairie]

What I'm doing is modding the shirt so that it could be setup as a uniform shirt by having pockets just like the current uniform shirts have, only leaving off the colored shoulder loops, red squares could be sewn on but I would rather not. The other reason to change the pockets is to make the shirt look less military.

Rothco made this shirt stateside, would feel better about that but one pocket was on crooked, might be why it was the one left.

 

[Gonzo1]

Rather than re-inventing the wheel, why not obtain clothes already on the market? REI, columbia, Fleyrs (from Sam's Club) etc. have active wear that people use. I recently bought a pair of shorts at Sam's with lots of pockets, olive drab/dark green color, some elastic in waist, fits well, takes a beating, washes well without shrinking. The only thing missing is a small BSA logo somewhere. Same could go for a shirt. BUT, and here's the but difference: keep the patches the same size, they are already made this size, don't waste money on all new patches.

 

Therefore, return to the old "style" green shirt, green pants combination or a new tan shirts, smaller collars, same size pocket flaps, some velcro, some zippered pants pockets, web or leather belt, and BAM!, cool new uniforms, for the outdoors and indoors too.

 

 

[Fuzzy Bear]

How about this, no adult patches, no epaulets for anyone, no do-dads but with pockets large enough to hold pencil and paper on the shirt and pants. Pants that zip off at the knees that can be worn in for a swim, dry quickly, and be worn into the bushes without being torn. There has always been this military thing about Scouting but it has always been pretty distant. If we are to be military, go bush and desert camo with black strips for office and colored strips for rank, no council patches. Let the kids enjoy hiding in the bushes and running and playing games instead of looking like there is to be a drill or inspection. If people want patches, let them sew them on to banners and carry them like flags during parades or hang them on their walls for show or just toss them in a box. Patch collectors hate it when patches are sewn onto things anyway and they only want to store the hundreds that they have, so it would be a win-win. Council patches are a joke and patrols could make their own. If everyone still wants decoration, then get fancy patches for their collection but keep them off the fun uniform. It is time Scouting came out of the dark ages concerning uniforms. fb

[BrentAllen]

No, no, no. We need two shirts - a Meeting shirt and a Camping shirt. The current uniform shirt would be the Meeting shirt (maybe get rid of the collar, or just turn it under). Seeing as how I attend many more meetings than I do campouts (regular Pack/Troop meetings, District Committe, Roundtable), this shirt would see a lot of wear. I like the current design, epaulets and all. It looks good and functions well as a Meeting shirt.

 

The Camping shirt could be the new nylon activity shirt, with a few patches for leader position, rank, unit number and patrol. I don't think I would wear a neckerchief with that shirt, but would if the boys wanted to. How many of you wear neckerchiefs while out on real backpacking trips (AT, Philmont)?

 

Why not have just one? In my mind, the Camping shirt is going to see rough use and might get a little "worn." For meetings, wear a nice looking shirt that stays in good shape.

[John-in-KC]

I've worn nylon and polypro shirts. I've worn woolen trou and shirts as well.

 

Give me natural fibers, please. Environmentally friendly. Lots less shocking.

 

I'm not even sure all polypro is recycled anymore!