Uniforms in a Non-uniform troop

[ScoutingEMT]

I was recently "volunteered" by one of the district commisioner staff to serve as an ASM to an old, established troop in my council. (I was looking for a unit, he said they needed help).

 

I know realize that this unit is a "larger" unit (30 or so active youth) but their idea of uniform starts, and ends, with a troop class B t-shirt.

 

Having grown up in troops where Class A uniforms were mandatory at all meetings, etc... this seems very akward. Also, as a new member, it is hard to tell who the Greenbar are and who are ASM's vs. committe members.

 

They wear Class A for courts of honor, BOR's (I think) and dinner at summer camp.

 

I'm not sure if this is a uniform issue, or a program issue... it just feels odd, and almost "wrong."

 

Any ideas or suggestions?

[jr56]

Maybe start by making some low key inquiries of key leaders in the troop as to how this process got established, and if they are comfortable with it. If it is firmly entrenched, and everybody is happy with it, you probably won't have much success changing it. One thing you can do is set the proper example yourself, and hope the idea catches on.

[Gonzo1]

ScoutingEMT,

You should continue to set the example by wearing your uniform.

It seems the scouts have uniforms if they wear them for COH and summer camp dinners. Try working with the PLC, if cost is the issue, encourage scouts to earn the money by pushing a lawn mower or snow shovel. Some used uniforms are available online.

 

Good luck.

[SSScout]

Howdy, Scouting EMT:

If you are a "volunteered" ASM, how's the SM? What's your relationship with her/him? You're right to go slow, as the new ASM on the block, and feel out the history and the philosophy of the Troop.

 

There's a thread about using positive reinforcement (behavior mod) in such situations. Talk to the Committee and the SM, both in and out of the room, about their feeling here. What you do is reward with a piece of candy ,quietly, the Scout who is uniformed. Pretty soon, it will get around, and you'll need more candy, at least that is what was reported.

 

Perhaps the fun and games before or after the meeting leads to not wanting to wear the best uniform. Rugby, broom hockey, touch football?

 

Keep us informed.

[epalmer84]

A few years ago we switched to the troop activity uniform during the summer months. From Memorial Day through Labor Day we wear the troop T-shirt. We wear the official uniform for ceremonies and the like. We tend to do a lot of our meetings outdoors during the summer and we felt it more appropriate.

 

When we visited the jamboree last year, we started out in official uniform. Given the example we saw and the weather, we switched to troop T-shirts after lunch.

 

Do remember that the uniform is a method, not the goal.

 

Ed

[Stosh]

Dang, we must be really behind the times!

 

We have no troop "Class B" uniform. As a matter of fact we have no "troop" uniform either.

 

The boys have a formal uniform (I suppose is what everyone is calling a Class A) that has a troop neckerchief. This uniform is worn anytime there's a meeting, BOR, Court of Honor, traveling to activities and at ALL meals. If someone shows up at a meeting without uniform they don't get credit for attendance. They don't do BOR or participate in Court of Honor without a uniform. They can't participate in flag ceremony without uniform and they don't get into any vehicle to travel to an activity without a uniform. With meals, if they opt out of uniform, we feel they won't starve to death before the next meal.

 

So far no boy has really objected to the policy.

 

By uniform we mean with neckerchief. EXCEPT.... ! When they function as a patrol, they wear their patrol neckerchief/hat/staff and/or whatever other symbol of their patrol they happen to decide upon. If they are working an Eagle project or doing activities at camp they have a scout t-shirt to wear. It must say BSA and have the fleur-de-lis on it to qualify. They only time a boy can be out of some sort of scout identification clothing is swimming or in the shower.

 

Our honor patrol has 3 neckerchiefs they wear and carry with them at all time as the situation around them changes. They arrive at the troop meeting in their troop neckerchief. When they are responsible for the meeting program as a patrol, they change over to that neckerchief. They have a "fun" neckerchief that they have recently adopted that is the wig-wag flag. They like it because no one else has such a neckerchief. They also recently opted for the expedition felt hat with the large 1st Class medallion, brass numerals for the troop number and tan/green hat cords. They also carry a 6' staff. They all carry positions of responsibility and with such uniformity, any scout leader can quickly find anyone of that patrol regardless of how large the crowd may be.

 

With enough esprit-de-corps, the boys have no problem wearing their uniforms.

[Beavah]

I gotta admit I'm a pro-uniform guy. I hear yeh when you say it just "feels wrong."

 

But I wonder... is it better to have 95% of the kids in the troop Class B T-shirt, or have 40% of the kids in BSA Class A tans? Which makes better use of the Uniform Method to achieve the Aims? I admit I don't have the answer.

 

Might depend on the aims of the CO of course

[Hunt]

"You should continue to set the example by wearing your uniform."

 

I essentially agree with this, but with some reservation. How do you look in your uniform? Not to be offensive, but will people want to look like you do? For example, are you a very big guy (and I don't necessarily mean overweight)? If so, are you wearing a standard teeny-tiny neckerchief? Maybe no necker would be better if the troop isn't wearing them. Also, what's your approach and personality like? Are you the person who is going to try to impose all kinds of rules, restrictions, requirements, procedures, etc. on a troop that hasn't had them? If so, the boys will associate the uniform with that approach, and the association may not be a favorable one. To put it another way, what will you do through your own behavior to make others want to be more like you, and to dress more like you? Please note I'm talking hypothetically, because I can't tell from your post what you're like.

[Trevorum]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Does the unit have a good program? Are the boys advancing? Are the greenbars leading? Is membership stable or growing? Are the boys having fun? If so, then mebbe the Class A isn't an issue.

 

I agree with epalmer - uniforming is a method to help achieve the goals of scouting (character development, etc.). Uniforming is not a goal in itself.

 

If the unit is uniformly presented at activities - that is, all members are wearing the same garb - then unit self identity is being achieved and the goals are being promoted. As Beav says, 95% dressed uniformly is much better than 40% dressed uniformly.

 

Get to know the members are you will soon learn who greenbar and who isn't. Evidently this unit functions quite well without the shoulder patches.

[epalmer84]

Neckechiefs: We opted out of the neckerchief. For formal occasions, we wear Wood Badge, Eagle Scout and NESA neckerchiefs as applicable.

 

Uniforms: BSA terminology is "official Boy Scout uniform" (used to be field uniform) and "activity uniform". Our activity uniform is a set of five troop t-shirts in five different colors- during summer came we set a color for each day so we can ensure they at least have on a clean shirt.

 

Many folks refer to these as "class A" and "class B". This is a carryover from military terminology and oficially frowned upon by the BSA.

http://www.scoutingmagazine.org/issues/0605/d-lett.html

 

Ed

[Trevorum]

A different colored T shirt for each day of camp! Clean clothes at camp - what an interesting idea - I winder if we could extend this to underwear as well ...

 

 

[LongHaul]

NOW STOP!!! Underwear, the changing or wearing of or not is at the sole discretion of the wearer, or not wearer as the case may be. I've used the "You can wear the same underwear all week!" as a selling point to many First Year Scouts to the absolute horror of thier mothers! "We'll hose them off and put them in clean clothes before we return them." comming from my advancement chair usually follows the gasps from the adult audience. Seeing one of my boys with his tee shirt inside out I pointed the fact out to him and was told, "The other side is dirty"

LongHaul

[Trevorum]

This is why I try to make sure all the first year guys sign up for Swimming MB at summer camp. At least they will get thoroughly wet every day.

 

Actually, we teach the fellows how to launder their duds using the 3-bucket method and a rubber plunger. The moms are pretty impressed.

 

[local1400]

Trevorum, I am glad you brought this thread up today I really wanted to weigh in. I cant believe scouts today do not want to wear a uniform. Maybe EMT you should ask the boys what they want to be when they grow up. Police officer, fireman, courier, pilot, soldier, doctor, nurse, pro athlete, custodian, even sanitation engineers all wear some sort of uniform. If they all wore t-shirts, how would you tell what someones TRUSTED occupation was? Kids made fun of scouts in my day, we were called lots of names then too, but I am not emotionally scarred for it. I am sorry that those kids who tried to degrade us missed out on many wonderful opportunities. And maybe thats why there are so many adult leaders today. Those hids are now parents of scouts and have realized what they missed. I was proud to wear my uniform even though it was used and green. I BELONGED to something that to this day I wholeheartedly believe in.

[Gonzo1]

I think some of the uniform problem has to do with our society in general. When I was a kid, "street shoes" were not allowed on the gym floor, nowadays, all the kids wear gym shoes or similar shoes.

 

Look at old video footage of people attending a baseball game from say 30 to 50 years ago, all of the men were wearing suits, with neckties and most wearing hats. The ladies wore dresses. That just doesn't happend today.

 

I'm not so old fashioned as to believe boys should wear "street shoes" today, but I don't see a problem with them wearing a uniform. If football players can get dirty and wear a clean uniform next week, so can scouts.