Wild Uniform Adaptations (how much should grown men care?)

[Beavah]

Along the lines of this post and the one on authority let me ask you for your opinion. I'm newly associated with a troop which has been continually chartered for 95 years. They have some traditions which go back quite a way. One of the things they do is have all the boys above First Class wear the green Venturing shirt. They have found over the years that this aids in retention of older boys. My question is do you think this is one of the "authority" issues which the local unit/CO have the "authority" to decide?

 

I can just see the rampagin' horde of uniform police that'll respond to this one . Seems like I better start a new thread just to give 'em room.

 

Let me give you several answers.

 

Pragmatic

Sure, they have the ability to decide it (they have done it, after all). The BSA corporation has no particular interest in, and no resources devoted to, making units comply with the Insignia Guide. In fact, the BSA is no doubt makin' more money on uniforms and memberships and goodwill than it would if they got in the way, eh?

 

Corporate Example

Plenty of councils effectively do this for summer camps, eh? Make all staff wear the green shirts. They may or may not really register a separate Crew for that, but even if they did that's a no-cost internal administrative game.

 

Vision/Mission

It's good use of the uniform method (kids respect da uniform, it means something, they wear it). It's decent use of advancement (provides an additional incentive to advance). Most importantly, it seems to have a shot at helpin' keep kids in the program. Yah, dat's what we want, eh?

 

Philosophy

For some COs/units/individuals, absolute obedience to the printed text is an important component of character. Those units would not want to make this adaptation. For da rest who feel that "the uniform was made for scouts, not scouts for da uniform", this would be a perfectly consistent example to their boys of how individuals show character. So it just depends, eh?

 

 

So yah, as a UC, I wouldn't be bothered by this as you describe it. If I remembered, I'd try to wear green when I went to visit, since I made 1st Class, eh? But if they asked, I'd tell 'em it wasn't "by the book" and would offer some reasons why that might be the case for them to consider. Beyond that, yah, it's theirs to decide. And I don't think other BSA volunteers from outside that unit should stick their nose in when da BSA corporation themselves don't care to get involved. Nuthin' like self-appointed garden gnomes tryin' to enforce someone else's guidelines on someone else's youth program (and then claimin' to be Courteous ).(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[CNYScouter]

The BSA corporation has no particular interest in, and no resources devoted to, making units comply with the Insignia Guide.

I think this goes deeper than allowing older scouts to be allowed to wear a different uniform and could be extended to read The BSA corporation has no particular interest in, and no resources devoted to, making units comply with the BSA program.

This, IMHO, is one of the big reasons the BSA is seeing a drop in numbers.

 

The BSA produce videos like The Scout Zone but there are Troops that never come close to doing anything like this.

I visited one Troop where they did 6 camping trips a year. 4 were cabin camping and one was an overnight at a sports center. The adults even washed the Scouts dishes on these trips. The CC said to me he didnt know why they couldnt get any of the Troops older Scouts to participate more.

Wheres the UC in this? She was there every week teaching all the younger Scouts the Skills through first calss

 

 

The BSA sells itself on being the nations foremost youth program of character development and values-based leadership training.

But, the number of Eagle Mills and adult run units I have met doesnt do much to fulfill this statement.

 

I think this has been asked many times before:

When does a change become OK?

 

This unit has made a change that seems to work.

In most cases the changes I have seen are not in the positive direction.

 

Is it OK for a Troops parents and Committee to decide that since kids are so busy today that they are not going to be boy-led and the adults do everything or to have a SM not use the patrol method because its easier to do it himself and not have to worry about teaching Scouts leadership?

The parents dont know any better and all stand behind the Units Leaders.

 

The Troop that stopped using the Patrol Method loses 75% of the Scouts that join in the first year and less than 10% of the kids that join are there when they enter High School.

I actually had an adult from this Troop say to me: We run a great Scout program its just that the boys dont want to participate.

When they cant understand when this stuff happens these leaders just shrug their shoulders and say Its not what we are doing it is just that kids arent into Scouts anymore.

 

The COs in these cases are AWOL as with most COs.

These COs have no idea how a Unit should be run and could care less about the day-today operations.

The Council and District are fully aware that this is happening but none are willing to step in and do something about it.

 

I think the BSA had better stop being a numbers game and start worrying about quality if they want to reverse the decline.

 

[Beavah]

Good thoughts, CNY. Yeh should join the "Authority" thread.

 

The Council and District are fully aware that this is happening but none are willing to step in and do something about it.

The thing you need to understand, and that I keep trying and failing to explain, is that the Council and District really don't have any authority to "step in" as you suggest. That's not the BSA's role, or business model, or legal relationship. They provide materials/training, contract with units to provide some camp experiences, and are available for help and suggestions if asked (and if they have an effective Commissioner Corps, which often ain't the case). That's it.

 

So it really is up to the units/CO's. That's the way the BSA works.

 

I think you're right. Many leaders are old and tired. Many are parents who are "filling a space" without much real experience or deep long-term enthusiasm. Some just don't get it, or shouldn't be leadin' kids of a particular age. Good program delivery at the unit level is by no means guaranteed.

 

I personally think the BSA could pay a lot more attention to its side of the Charter agreement, in terms of providing service and support. Unlike BrianBuf, I don't think they need to change the program much. I think they need to change their methods of deliverin' support and service a lot. We're still usin' the support structure developed more than 50 years ago! And as you mention, it ain't workin' all that well.