green epaulettes on Tan class A

[BrentAllen]

Mr. Allen is my dad. No harm, brother.

[Beavah]

Wow, a resurrected "dead horse"

 

BA, I don't think anybody's ever called me "dude" before. Thanks. Sorta feels like being "carded" at the pub for the first time in 40 years.

 

If your unit program is big into uniforming, and that reflects your CO's mission and goals, good on yeh! That's why all those uniform inspection sheets and Insignia Guides and such exist. To support units like yours that really get into how far down from the shoulder seam a World Crest should be sewn, eh?

 

But you know as well as I do that your unit is an oddity. The majority rarely do uniform inspections, if at all. Heck, I betcha not one in ten troops even owns an Insignia Guide. If it were important, we'd all be given one for free, eh?

 

There are other ways to view the Uniform Method, and other CO's. LongHaul gave you just one among many. His troop is certainly making use of the Uniform Method, just with a different twist.

 

The BSA's sole practical interest in all those Rules and Regulations is to maintain some control over its brand identity. You know, so some political party doesn't use Boy Scouts for their own ends, or Colgate doesn't use 'em to sell toothpaste. National needs to keep marketing control. So yah, sure, Venturing Division doesn't want green on tan, because their marketing strategy is to try to make Venturing not look like dumb Boy Scoutin' with its uniform fetish. That's their only interest, eh?

 

Loved your comment about all the photos, though. Yeh do know that it's fun sport each year to flip through the catalog and promo materials and find the dozens of "uniform errors" every year, eh? Remember the guy with the green shirt and red shoulder loops that was on the scouting.org front page for a while last year? And even as I type, there's a lad on National's home page who is wearing a Trained patch with no badge of office. Horrors! Don't they take their own Insignia Guide seriously?? :)

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Eamonn]

OJ rushed out of the house to attend the OA banquet with a shirt with no loops.

He called and asked me to bring him a set, he started asking for a set of red loops, then thought maybe he'd go with silver and then jokingly said yellow would be nice!!

This got my little grey cells working!

 

Why have different colored loops?

I can tell the difference between a youth member and an adult.

95% of the time I spent scouting is spent with people I know anyway.

Outsiders with no knowledge of scouting don't understand the color code anyway.

To be honest most times I don't give a tinkers what color loops someone has on their shirt.

I can't help wondering if somewhere along the line maybe just maybe some kind of "Snob" thing creeps in?

I try and match the loops with the position patch on the uniform.

There are still a few shirts in the cupboard with Cub Scouter patches on. I haven't worn them shirts in a very long time and the blue loops seem to have toddled off to that far away land of lost odd socks.

There are a lot of shirts with District position patches hanging in the cupboard. OJ took some of the loops when he served on the Council Camping Committee. This really was a case of snob value!!

Lots of shirts with different Boy Scout adult positions left over from Wood Badge courses and Jamborees.

I don't think I'll ever use them again. My Wood Badge days are over and the time to pass the Jamboree baton on to someone younger and better looking was more than lightly before the last Jamboree.

A couple of shirts with Area Committee patches on and yellow loops. Strange how nearly all of the meetings and activities were done with no uniform in sight!!

I'm still trying to make sense of all the Sea Scout uniforms. The adult working uniform doesn't have any loops!! The white shirt has shoulder pads. I can't help thinking that it really is too close to looking like a military uniform.

The NE-Region Bridge of Honor and Sea Scout Ball is coming soon and it seems the white adult uniform in the Sea Scout manual is not really the right thing to wear.

If we were to do away with the loops, we would have no need for the epaulets and maybe a tan colored shirt made by Dickie's could replace the shirt we have at present. At about half the cost what the BSA shirt costs.

These loops are of little or no use!!

I'd be happy to see them gone.

Ea.

[BrentAllen]

Beavah,

Try as I might to give your posts a Minnesooooooota accent when reading them, my mind keeps pulling up Mr. Crabs, from SpongeBob. :-) I'll keep trying.

 

"If it were important, we'd all be given one for free, eh?"

Now, we are getting somewhere! The only important things in the BSA program are the ones we are given for free. OK, let me think.... what have I been given for free?

Hmmmmm.... (scratching head)

.

Hmmmmm......(rubbing chin)

.

Hmmmmmm......(tappping temple)

.

The only thing I can think of that I was given for free was the Scout Shop catalog - is that the only thing that is important!?!?

 

"Yah, the BSA doesn't care, eh? They don't spend a second of time or a cent of money worryin' about it."

I've already pointed out the resources the BSA provides on proper uniforming. Open the front cover of the BSA handbook, and what do you see - first thing? How about the back cover?

 

Let me turn the argument around. A boy wants to join Scouts. He goes to a troop meeting and fills out the paperwork. He heads off to the Scout Shop to buy his uniform. The staff gets him everything he needs - shirt, pants, socks, belt, hat, handbook, neckerchief (if troop wears one), patches, loops. They show him in the handbook the sections on how and where to wear it. The boy maybe sees mannequins dressed properly, or posters around the shop. He heads home and reads his book, and shows up at the next meeting, dressed completely and correctly. He looks around and sees boys wearing shirts, but jeans or khakis, some are wearing blue loops, some don't have any patches on at all. So, wear does he learn incorrect uniforming - from National or from his troop?

National does care about correct uniforming, and provides the materials to support it (as they do for every other aspect of the program). It is the local troops that go out of their way to ignore it. Where do these troops get the idea, or see examples, of other uniforming as acceptable?

 

Now, your new Scout is working on his Tenderfoot. He repeats the Scout Law from memory.

"A Scout is Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Happy, Thrifty, Brave, Clean, and Reverent."

You say, "I think you missed one - it is Cheerful, not Happy."

New Scout: "I like Happy better. Nobody says cheerful anymore."

SM Mr. Crabs: "But the Law doesn't include Happy, the correct word is Cheerful."

New Scout: "Come on, Mr. Crabs, is it really that important? I like Happy. Besides, if it was really important, they would have given me my handbook for free!"

 

New (different) Scout gets home with his new uniform and a handful of patches (unit number, council strip, the usual) and calls you on the phone and asks where do they all go? What do you tell him - "oh, just put them anywhere you like, whatever looks good." Or do you tell him to look inside the cover of his handbook for instructions, which are taken from the Insignia Guide? Curious to know your answer.

 

[OR Pioneer]

Responding to: "Scout gets home with his new uniform and a handful of patches (unit number, council strip, the usual) and calls you on the phone and asks where do they all go? What do you tell him - "oh, just put them anywhere you like, whatever looks good." Or do you tell him to look inside the cover of his handbook for instructions, which are taken from the Insignia Guide? Curious to know your answer."

 

The answer is much more important than correct uniforming. If you want to build a strong Troop and carry out the mission of scouting you answer. "Great question! Glad you want to look good. I'm sure your patrol leader can answer it. Why don't you aks him?"

 

I would add two buttons to our uniforms. One to point to when talking to youth members which would say "Ask your patrol leader." The other to point to when working with adults who want to "organize" things. That one would say, "Never send an adult to do a Scout's job"

 

Scouting has brought me two sons who are Eagles, fine citizens, good husbands and fathers. My learning the two concepts above was one key to that success.

 

Berk Moss, Newberg OR

[Beavah]

Yah, BA, dat's Northern Wisconsin, eh? Udderwise, why would I know so many cow pie jokes? You'd have to tape record me and then play me back at half speed to make a Minnesoooda accent, eh?

 

BSA produces all kinds o' other support materials, eh? Climb on Safely, the Fieldbook, Program Helps, and on and on. Doesn't mean that they expect every troop to be doin' climbing or sailing or even backpackin'. They're providin' resources to help with the Outdoor Method. Yeh can use other resources, too.

 

BSA provides resources to help with meetings and Patrol Method and youth leadership too. Doesn't mean they expect everyone's goin' to do meetings exactly that way, or not use other resources for youth leadership. They're just holdin' up their end of the charter agreement - providing resources to support the CO/unit's scouting efforts.

 

Same with uniformin'. They provide resources to help troops with uniformin'. Even troops that get into it in a military-inspection "big time" way. But just like the Outdoor Method, they don't expect every troop to get into it that same way. They don't even require an official BSA uniform for membership.

 

Yah, sure, BSA's goin' to expect the paid staff to help 'em defend their materials copyrights and brand identity, eh? Part of the business. But that's a kinda independent business/marketing issue, not a program one.

 

I'm glad you like the BSA uniform support materials. Super that they work well for your unit, and make your kids proud. Just like I'm glad other units make full use of other BSA support materials for their programs, that you might not dig into as deep.