Uniform awareness presentation project

[kraut-60]

One word here...WOW! All the replies here are excellent, I am very impressed with several suggestions, especially the Top Ten type of list. I will take the T-10 and use it with the T-10 Shoulds and the T-10 Should nots.

 

The "Jeopardy" game approach will be utilized as I feel a presentation with audience participation leaves more of an impression than a mere lecture tends to.

 

I will continue to outline my presentation using the good feedback I have gotten here, thanks again to all replying!

 

I would add that some of my top ten shouldnts are....

Scouters wearing a tempory patch on the left pocket.

Scouters and Scouts wearing multiple Quality Unit patches.

Scouters wearing "Trained" strips on the right sleeve.

[Gonzo1]

Along with patches is the uniform police favorite of adult boy scout leaders wearing patrol emblems. Exception is woodbadge. I admit the rocking chair is nice, but not authorized. maybe an old goat emblem would be nice too.

 

[Crew21_Adv]

Kraut-60,

 

Greetings!

 

The idea of a uniform awareness presentation does sound like a good idea. I would say that most errors in uniforming are caused by simply being uneducated. Very few Scouts (their parents) and Scouters break the uniform decorum purposely. Quiet often it is the parent that does not know where to sew patches (even though the shirts are now being sold with a uniform example on the tag). I have to bite my tongue, especially when I see Bobcat thru Webelos Ranks patches pinned to the pocket flap with the Mothers Pin, month after month after month.

 

Some items change over the years, I was looking at EMB's comment about the World Crest. An older uniform inspection sheet had the Boy Scouts and Scouters wearing the World Crest centered between the left pocket and shoulder seam, while the Cub Scouts wore it three inches above the left pocket. Now the Cub Scout has the Crest centered between the pocket and seam (like the Scouts and Scouters). I remember a long heated argument where we broke out the book and three inspection sheets, just to learn there was a difference (now since corrected).

 

Another significant change. Years ago the Green and Khaki uniform was brought down to the Webelos. I was told it prepared them for Boy Scouting by having the uniform already, it was also a recruiting tool for retention in the program. (I am critical of Scouts that never wear their uniform, due to their parents refusing to purchase another uniform for their 15 y/o, because he cant fit into the extra-small khaki shirt they purchased when he was 9 y/o. But that is my own opinion). In the Webelos and Webelos Leaders handbooks, it previously stated that the uniform style was the decision of the den. (So the entire Den would have to dress in either blue or green/khaki). In recent editions, the change was very smart. It changed from the decision of the den, to the decision of the family. 9 11 year old boys go thru various growth spurts. Some Webelos (and families) may desire to stay in blues throughout. Some Webelos may grow tremendously and need a new shirt (probably khaki) during their first Webelos year. But changing to the decision of the family was very, very smart.

 

You referenced Leader Specific Training. In the recent Cub Scout Leader Specific breakouts there is a game where the learners place paper/cardboard patches on a paper/cardboard uniform shirt. EMB has commented earlier about the cut out version of this example. It is part of the actual Cub Scout Specific curriculum, but not the Boy Scout Specific or Venturing Specific. I have assembled a kit of old shirts and patches in a few zip lock bags, so I can lay the shirt on the table, and allow the learners to place the patches onto the shirt in the appropriate location. Before or after this session, a Uniform Guide may be too much for handouts, but the four Uniform Inspection Sheets come in bundles and may be perfect for handing out to the entire class.

 

 

This kind of audience participation should lead to a win-win situation. As far as a skit, it would be difficult to have a positive experience. (not saying it can't be done) Such as, a correctly uniformed Scout or Leader may gain more respect in a sharp uniform, but I would hesitate to dress in a sloppy or mis-matched uniform to demonstrate a bad example. Maybe an old Gypsy woman (palm reader) that can tell where a boy has been and where he is going by looking at his uniform, could be a thought. Maybe ending with handing out business cards of a Gypsy Seamstress (usually found in many towns) where they will sew on patches for a reasonable price. (Yes, you may call this endorsing a business, but this is meant for those parents that don't sew!)

 

To me, that would be the most value added. First, having a paper that showed me where the patches go, and second, having a seamstress that will sew the patches in the correct place for the right price.

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Just make sure you never tell the Gypsy woman that the boy causing all the trouble is named Larry Talbot...

[emb021]

"I would add that some of my top ten shouldnts are..."

"Scouters wearing a tempory patch on the left pocket."

 

Agree.

 

I have one rule about temporary patches that if they have button loops, they should not be sewn down. I get annoyed when people do that.

 

"Scouters and Scouts wearing multiple Quality Unit patches."

 

It USED to be the rule, but was dropped once they had put out 3-4 of them. The worse are the ones with double rows.

 

"Scouters wearing "Trained" strips on the right sleeve."

 

Never seen that. I usually see scouts wear the trained strip with no office patch.

 

"Along with patches is the uniform police favorite of adult boy scout leaders wearing patrol emblems. Exception is woodbadge."

 

with WB they should only be pinned on for the duration of the course. I get annoyed by those WBs who continue to wear their WB patrol medallion after being beaded...

 

[SWScouter]

I have to go with emb021's #4 & #12. I see a lot of uniform shirts with way too much space between the CSP and unit number and position patch, etc. I also see a lot of knots sewn on upside down. This is especially true with the single color knots such as the youth religious emblem knot.

 

SWScouter

[Lisabob]

Kraut, One thing I think worth keeping in mind is that a presentation that works for roundtable or leader specific training may not be the same as a presentation that works for packs/troops/teams/crews where you are addressing both youth and adult members (and maybe also parent non-members) together. Personally I'd stick with a format that would work for roundtable and leader training because I think you'll get the most mileage out of it.

 

Emb says:

"I get annoyed by those WBs who continue to wear their WB patrol medallion after being beaded... "

 

I'm just curious and don't mean to hijack the thread but...why does this annoy you? Seems reasonable that it might be an expression of pride in their patrol? And why AFTER they've been beaded - is it ok prior to beading? I don't wear my BobWhite emblem on my uniform but as I say, I'm just curious about this.

 

Lisa'bob

[flmomscoutw3]

Great WB Ticket Kraut-60

I guess the one thing I would stress is that WHITE scoks are not part of the uniform. It always amazes me when I see scouts in otherwise complete uniforms to see those white socks sticking out.

I will be looking for info similar to what you are doing here. We just moved to a new troop (for lots of reasons, but distance was the biggest) and was told by the SM they were a complete uniform trop. I was surprised to find out that is not currently the case. My boys and myself show up uniformed (yes even the socks) and I am currently working with the parents on returning this to a uniformed troop. I may be making some waves, but I hope in the end there is not much resistance.

 

Anyway, Best of luck with your WB Ticket.

 

[emb021]

"I also see a lot of knots sewn on upside down. This is especially true with the single color knots such as the youth religious emblem knot."

 

Wearing the single color knots upside down is not as bad as doing so with the ones with a clear orientation (like the silver beaver, et al). Or wearing the knot with the plastic backing facing out.

 

The big problem I see with knots are the people who don't understand how the miniture pins work. And the people who hassle kids for wearing the knots they are entitled to (like the youth religious knot).

 

I wrote:

"I get annoyed by those WBs who continue to wear their WB patrol medallion after being beaded... "

 

Lisa'bob asks:

"I'm just curious and don't mean to hijack the thread but...why does this annoy you? Seems reasonable that it might be an expression of pride in their patrol?"

 

Patrol medallions are for youth wear only. Adults should not be wearing them. No, wearing them is NOT a reasonable way to show pride in your patrol. There are other methods:

 

You can get special WB nametags (either pin above the pocket or pocket dangles) that can indicate your patrol. Wear that. Or wear a pin on your hat. But don't sew a patrol medallion on your uniform. Worse was a sea scout skipper who sewed her fox patrol medallion on her sea scout uniform. totally inapproprate, as sea scouts don't use patrol medallions...

 

[Crew21_Adv]

Kraut-60 and Fellow Scouters,

 

Regarding the Wood Badge patrol emblems on the adult Scouters shirts.

 

For the Wood Badge for Boy Scout Leaders (75-99) The participants were to prepare two complete uniforms, dressed as a youth Scout. Sometimes their WB patrol emblem would be included in the welcoming letter mail. I remember sewing mine on day one within the first five minutes, part of our STA's, Ouch!

 

Since the Wood Badge for the 21st Century, participants are placed into Dens, and then Patrols. The most recent revision (2005 ed) allows them to stay in a den until after lunch. Since these new editions have been written, participants are no longer required to sew on any patches or patrol emblems.

 

So, Wood Badgers still wearing their patrol emblems, would probably have attended prior to 2000.

 

As for any Wood Badgers having taken the WB for the 21st Century, which are wearing their patrol emblem; well, their WB Scoutmaster may be adding requirements and over-stepping their WB Scoutmaster pledge.

 

Ive been disappointed when hearing WB Scoutmasters say, We are exactly by the book! Except for this and that. and this. Well I guess they are not exactly by the book then. But that should be another topic.

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

 

[emb021]

Regarding WB uniforms.

 

As Crew21_Adv mentioned, WB participants no longer wear 'striped' uniforms. Same is now true for the staffers (who now must indicate their position by special nametags).

 

WB participants are given their patrol mediallion with a safety pin to pin on their uniform for the course, and they have PL & APL patches with safety pins for the same purposes. There is no reason (no excuse?) for any WBers to be sewing on their patrol medallions.

 

Despite this, I still see WBers (both 'old' and 'new' course) sewing on their patrol medallions after the course.

[Trevorum]

In his list of uniform mistakes, emb021 lists the following: "6. CSPs (proliferation of CPS-shaped patches worn in place of the CSP)".

 

Not sure what is meant here. Any council shoulder flap (CSP) is valid for uniform wear as long as it is (1) your own current council, (2) was actually issued by the council, and (3) is one of the four approved shapes. Importantly, CSPs do not become invalid once a council issues a new design. Many councils have multiple designs in circulation simultaneously. Some of these are commemorative (e.g., council anniversary), are issued for special activities (e.g, philmont trek), or special events (e.g., annual Friends of Scouting campaign). However, ALL such special CSPs are valid for uniform wear.

[emb021]

"In his list of uniform mistakes, emb021 lists the following: "6. CSPs (proliferation of CPS-shaped patches worn in place of the CSP)".

 

"Not sure what is meant here. Any council shoulder flap (CSP) is valid for uniform wear as long as it is (1) your own current council, (2) was actually issued by the council, and (3) is one of the four approved shapes. Importantly, CSPs do not become invalid once a council issues a new design. Many councils have multiple designs in circulation simultaneously. Some of these are commemorative (e.g., council anniversary), are issued for special activities (e.g, philmont trek), or special events (e.g., annual Friends of Scouting campaign). However, ALL such special CSPs are valid for uniform wear. "

 

No, not all special CSP are valid for uniform wear. Just because they are issued by a council doesn't make them a CSP. They must be approved by your SE to be a CSP. My home council issued a FOS CSP-shaped patch. With a button loop. So, obviously, the intent was that they were NOT be to worn as a CSP. There is a reason that in the patch collecting world, these patches are called SAPs, and not CSP. (SAP= shoulder activity patch, not a CSP, but a CSP-shaped activity patch)

 

The thing is more of a philisophical issue. The purpose of CSPs is to provide a single item that all in the council will wear, instead of the old proliferation of hundreds of community strips. Have CSP-shaped patches that only certain people can get (Commissioners, WBers, Eagle Scouts, FOS donators, those who attend Philmont, etc), violates this. I don't have a problem with councils issuing them. I do not feel that they should be worn on the uniform. I know you are a commissioner or Eagle Scout due to the appropriate insignia. I don't need a CSP to tell me that.

 

 

[hendrickms24]

"The thing is more of a philisophical issue. The purpose of CSPs is to provide a single item that all in the council will wear, instead of the old proliferation of hundreds of community strips. Have CSP-shaped patches that only certain people can get (Commissioners, WBers, Eagle Scouts, FOS donators, those who attend Philmont, etc), violates this. I don't have a problem with councils issuing them. I do not feel that they should be worn on the uniform. I know you are a commissioner or Eagle Scout due to the appropriate insignia. I don't need a CSP to tell me that."

 

 

 

I agree with emb021 on this one. When I was a scout back in the 80's I could tell if a Troop or Pack was from a different Council. Now with these entire different patches worn by each member I cannot even tell if the scouts are from the my own council!

 

Mark M.

 

[Trevorum]

emb021 and hendricks,

 

With respect, I understand that you feel that special issue CSPs shouldn't be worn on the uniform, that they are confusing, and that you don't think they are necessary. However, these are you own opinions and are not backed up anywhere by BSA policy.

 

This is a common mistaken belief, that there is only ONE acceptable CSP per council. Not true.

 

Again, I will emphasize that any CSP is valid for uniform wear as long as it (1) is your own council, (2) was legitimately issued by the council, and (3) is one of the four shapes that have been approved by national.

 

Collectors have their own way of cataloging patches. These schemes are intended to facilitate their hobby and have nothing to do with uniform policy.

 

Some councils have only issued a single CSP since these were first authorized in 1970 (eg. Alapaha Council). Others have issued hundreds of CSPs (eg., Simon Kenton Council). It's a local option that we should acknowledge and respect.

 

If you have a favorite council CSP, by all means wear that one. But please do not confuse other Scouts and Scouters by giving them incorrect advice.

 

-Trevorum

(always ready for a good patch swap! )