Whats with Philmount?

[wrhatfield]

First, let me say I think women in Scouts is OK but only in certain places. What I am getting at is this - if a woman wants to be a ranger, that is fine. However, she must understand that there are small young men in the groups. I had an Asst. Scoutmaster who just returned from Philmont and he had a woman ranger. Well, was he ever surprised when she needed to go to the restroom, she didn't care who was watching. Then they put his group in a campground where the group had to pass through two groups of girls and boy did they get an eye full! Half dressed and running around in their underwear! Come on now -lets get real! If things don't change we are going to have something really bad happen to someone. And talking about bad - does anyone remember the bear attack just weeks ago? Well, it seems that a girl ranger had a young boy get sick and throw up. Did she make him change his clothes and put it in the bear bag? No! The puke she picked up, she put it next to the outhouse - so where does the bear go? Straight to the boy and almost killed him. People, there are lawyers who love this kind of stuff. Talking about bear attacks, has anyone wondered why Fort Collins has had 47 sightings in 3 weeks? Well, if you looked at who is saying there and what they were doing with their food, you would know. Lets face it, if scouts is going to keep being a viable program we are going to have to get rid of some people who can't see the end of their nose when it comes to using their head. We need to wake up and look at who we are hiring - are they going to hire someone who is qualifed or are the just going to hire them to keep up the correct quota?

 

 

 

Which is fine with me, but lets make sure they have all their smarts. The scouting program is too good a program to let it go down in the name of political correctness and hiring quota.

[gshafer]

Just in case you weren't aware of it, there has been female rangers at Philmont for a long time. I went to Philmont in 1975 and we had a female range and to be honest with you she had more hiking and backpacking skills than any of the youth or adults in our contingent.

 

Sounds like your leader just had a bad experience or maybe just has a problem with seeing a female involved with the BSA.

 

As for the other situation with having to go thru a campsite with girls running around in their underware, I'll just take your word that this happened. I hope it's an isolated incident, because the vast majority of reports I receive from our troops going to Philmont, they have never had this type of thing happen.

 

Girls in the BSA, might as well get use to it. The BSA is one few Scouting organizations world wide that is not co-ed. With the exception that the Venture Crews, Explorers and Learning for Life groups already co-ed. I think it's just a matter of time before the rest of the program opens up to females as well.

[Rooster7]

I hope you're wrong. Despite the hype of recent years, I believe that there are differences between the sexes beyond our bodies. BSA is a great program, which gives boys the opportunity to mature into young men. It was designed with boys in mind. I'm certain that others will declare me to be a male chauvinist or something worse, but I'm happy the program is exclusive to boys and I hope it remains so.

[OldGreyEagle]

I would like to see Troops remain all-male, the Venture Program offers plenty of Co-ed activity.

 

As far as the female ranger goes, seems like she may have helped dispel the aura of the feminine mystique and the boys found out she was as human as they are.

 

Girls running around in underwear? In camp? Could they have been swimwear? Most girls that age barely admit to wearing underwear let alone letting anyone see it, then again I may be wrong.

 

Our troop just had a Philmont contingent get back, I cant wait to talk to them about it

[wrhatfield]

This scoutmaster has been to Philmont several times and he knows about female rangers.Maybe he did have a bad experence, and yes he knows the differance between swimwear and underwear. But we must remember that there are boys (young men) who have been raised to respect a female's privacy and he should get the same respect in return. It would not be a problem setting up differant campsites and haveing a male ranger take out the troop. The people just need to be aware that if this type of situation keep occurring, someone will eventually mess up which may result in charges being pressed against them. Won't the liberal newspapers and T.V. like that! When you light a match, if you keep putting wood on it you are going to get burned. It is time to blow it out before this happens.

[OldGreyEagle]

Boys and girls consorting in the wild in their underwear? Sounds like heaven to the liberal press, but not to me.

 

If this was as you explained, then strict measures need to be in place. At our summer camp we have an 18 and below shower and above 18 shower facility. We at the least can have male and female sides of the trail for modesty sake

[wrhatfield]

It's true, I hate to admit it.These are some of the worst examples of their trek. The ranger was written up but he feels like it didn't go any further than the front desk. This poor girl just didn't know anything. If he hadn't been a experienced hiker at Philmont, there is no telling what would have happened if she had taken out a bunch of greenhorns.

[eisely]

Sorry to hear about the bad experience. However it sounds to me like there is a problem with an individual, not a program. Probably all crews could benefit from some briefing (play on words not intentional) on the need for modesty before hitting the trail, and this need is not confined just to Philmont. Coming back to the individual, your story just shows that competence as an attribute does not discriminate across the sexes, just as it does not discriminate across the races. Better luck next time.

[eisely]

Sorry to hear about the bad experience. However it sounds to me like there is a problem with an individual, not a program. Probably all crews could benefit from some briefing (play on words not intentional) on the need for modesty before hitting the trail, and this need is not confined just to Philmont. Coming back to the individual, your story just shows that competence as an attribute does not discriminate across the sexes, just as it does not discriminate across the races. Better luck next time.

[yarrow]

I hardly know what to respond....I'm always surprised when I find such an interesting relic.

Underwear... how shocking. Thank goodness men and boys have the good sense never to run around in their briefs.

 

I think Philmont has a wonderful program and delighted it is open to girls and women as well. The Girl Scouts have some fabulous properties too. I personally look forward to the day when the Scouts support each other better and work together more.

 

There are more than physical differences between men and women. Eons of development have created physical differences, different viewpoints and approaches to problems...so what. There are competent rangers and incompetent rangers. Sounds like your group ended up with a problem. Too bad, really, it created an opportunity for a rant.

[Rooster7]

"There are more than physical differences between men and women. Eons of development have created physical differences, different viewpoints and approaches to problems...so what."

 

Yarrow, I'm assuming that this comment is in response to my earlier post - "Despite the hype of recent years, I believe that there are differences between the sexes beyond our bodies."

 

If so, I'd like to respond. My statement was not meant to insinuate that women/girls were in any way less capable or less significant than men/boys. My comment was intended to point out that each sex has differences that go beyond their bodies. Consequently, it is perfectly legitiment for a program such as BSA to be designed and implemented for a specific gender. In fact, it helps develop those differences so that as adults we can better complement one another. In this case, I see the Boys Scouts of America serving that role very well. I wouldn't want to see it changed simply to satisfy someone's idea of political correctness.

 

For future reference, co-ed programs are great. There are many excellent programs. However, that does not mean we should make every program co-ed. Single sex programs can and have served noble purposes as well (i.e., BSA).

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Co-Ed issues notwithstanding, Our troop had a few guys on a trek at Philmont. While none had a story like this,I did find their description of nutrition interesting. Oatmeal and slim jims for breakfast, crackers and jelly or cheese or peanut butter for lunch? and a decent evening meal.

 

Sounds skimpy and does anyone know if the rations provided meet the federal requirments?

 

Or are the guys just whining?

[eisely]

When I trekked at Philmont six years ago, lunches were "spreadables" and crackers. Spreadables were generaly tuna or shrimp. Do you suppose that PETA has gotten to the Philmont commissary people too? I smell a vast conspiracy here!

[scamp]

My husband and older son did a Philmont trek in summer 1998 and my husband and younger son made a trek in summer 2000. Both times they returned home talking about trail food. In summary it was basic nutrition, lacking presentation, flavor or quantity. My husband said he was alway hungry (he's a fairly high burner). My older son can be described as a picky eater, but he got down most of what was offered just because he got so hungry. They burn a lot of energy! "Spreadables" was a staple for both groups. The kids complained a lot about the food, but there were never any left overs, because my husband always volunteered to eat what was left!! Sorry, these threads always seem to drift off topic. I should have started a new thread changing from inappropriate behavior from female ranger to trail food.

[scamp]

My husband and older son did a Philmont trek in summer 1998 and my husband and younger son made a trek in summer 2000. Both times they returned home talking about trail food. In summary it was basic nutrition, lacking presentation, flavor or quantity. My husband said he was alway hungry (he's a fairly high burner). My older son can be described as a picky eater, but he got down most of what was offered just because he got so hungry. They burn a lot of energy! "Spreadables" was a staple for both groups. The kids complained a lot about the food, but there were never any left overs, because my husband always volunteered to eat what was left!! Sorry, these threads always seem to drift off topic. I should have started a new thread changing from inappropriate behavior from female ranger to trail food.