uniforms at summer camp

[gwd-scouter]

Our summer camp "requires" full official uniform for flag ceremonies, evening meal, opening and closing campfire programs, Sunday chapel service. All other times the activity uniform is required.

 

Now, those requirements are followed to the letter by some troops, almost not at all by others.

 

The staff is always in full field or activity uniform right down to the official socks.

 

Our troop tries to abide by the camp requirements and we all (adults and youth) wear the full official uniform when required. However, during the daytime activities, our scouts wear a scout-related T shirt or a plain T shirt and whatever shorts they have.

 

My older son went to National Jamboree in 2001 and we had to buy him 3 official uniforms and a bunch of extra socks and T shirts so that he would be properly dressed at all times. Quite an added expenses on top of the expense for the trip itself! I can't see requiring the same type of expense for a week of summer camp.

 

This summer was the first summer in many years that all the scouts in our troop actually had their full uniforms. They actually laid them aside and changed into them at the proper events during the week. Even had one Scout get very upset when he couldn't find his Scout shorts. He was to do the troop report at the evening assembly and told me "I can't DO the troop report if I don't have my full uniform."

 

Now, I never told him that. Maybe it was a sense of pride the boys had when they looked around and saw that they were one of the few troops that actually were all properly uniformed.

 

Maybe not. Maybe it was just youthful enthusiasm - he is a new Scout.

 

So, Lisabob, I would suggest that your scouts have one official uniform and a bunch of scout-related Ts or plain Ts and that ought to be fine for summer camp.

 

 

[Hunt]

I never thought I'd be the one posting this, but I think this thread needs a brief summary of the proper (and common) names for various levels of uniforming.

Boy Scouts have two levels of uniform: "field" and "activity."

The field uniform (referred to by many as "full" or "official" or "Class A") is BSA shirt, pants or shorts, belt, and socks, with neckerchief and/or hat optional to the unit.

The activity uniform is exactly the same except that the shirt is replaced by a scout-related T-shirt.

Of course, many units use different terms, and allow different permutations, but these in fact are the only BSA-recognized uniform options. A couple of points: there are some other items, such as the merit badge sash and medals, that can be worn with the field uniform, but they don't constitute a different class of the uniform in BSA terms.

Although I don't think "field" and "activity" are very good terms for the two BSA levels of uniforming, at least they have an official definition, which is not the case for the many idiosyncratic definitions of Classes A through Z we often hear about here. I guess my point is that when asking what is expected, you should ask for specifics, since what somebody else means by "Class B" or even "activity" uniform may not be the same as what you mean by it.

[EagleInKY]

Ours is pretty lax in my opinion. Field uniform is only required for campfires (Sun & Fri), Flag lowerings/dinner, vespers, OA Callout. This year, we were the only troop - again - that had scouts wearing shorts, socks & shirt. Most troops seem to consider the scout shirt with anything else as a uniform. I even saw a scout on a color guard wearing pajama pants with his uniform shirt. How sad.

 

We try to do the flag raising on Tuesday mornings. Our entire troop wears their uniforms for that. I think it's quite impressive.

 

If the temperature gets too bad, they go to activity uniforms. Of course, given the standard for field uniforms, that pretty much means anything goes.

 

During the day, scouts can wear anything they want. Of course, it must be "appropriate" (i.e. no alcohol, foul language, etc.). We encourage our guys to wear troop t-shirts, previous year camp shirts, etc. They wear any shorts they want during the day.

 

 

(I think MaScout got her "field" and "activity" reversed, but we get the point.)

 

 

[acco40]

A little training info for the uniform police:

 

In my troop we don't feel like following the Ideals of Scouting. You know, the Oath, Law, Motto and Slogan. We really don't feel that it is necessary and it is such a pain in the derrire to follow all the time.

 

What do you think of the above statement? Sound a little ludicrous? So you think that not following the methods of Scouting is a little crazy? I agree. I strongly feel that as Scouters, we've signed up to deliver the Scouting program and one of the methods of Scouting in The Uniform. We should as leaders, follow it and raise the expectation for the youth to follow it. Why do you think that for Wood Badge, Trail to Eagle, NYLT and other premiere training programs that proper uniforming is stressed?

[MaScout]

Yeah...Ma got activity & field reversed. Thanks for knowing what I MEANT, not what I said. I had just come off a 2-week intense Scouting period, & was rather bushed. (Over 1000 miles touring trip with the troop, followed by a concession stand where we turned over $4000 in receipts in two nights!)

 

First, I agree there is only ONE field uniform and ONE activity uniform. (Although in reverse of my earlier post. ) However, that isn't everyone's stand. Some people are perfectly content with just the shirt, paired with jeans or shorts. I don't feel it is my place to scold anyone about their choices. I will continue to model proper uniforming and school the troop I am affiliated with, but will stay out of other troops affairs.

 

Furthermore, I don't think it REALLY matters what we call them, as long as YOUR troop knows what you are talking about. (Yikes! I'd better watch out for some fallout from that statement.) I think it kind of goes along with "Uniform Policing".

 

Bottom line -- which is more important -- getting the terminology right or delivering a good program?

 

Gotta' run -- more Scout activities around the corner. I love this Scouting stuff! Ma

[EagleInKY]

"Some people are perfectly content with just the shirt, paired with jeans or shorts. I don't feel it is my place to scold anyone about their choices."

 

So, Ma, to borrow from acco's idea. I'm good with Trustworthy, Helpful, Friendly, Kind and Thrifty. The rest are just optional. Who are you to scold me for that?

 

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't go around picking on other troop's uniforming. Believe me, I'd run out of time. It's a "target rich environment". But I do get real picky with my troop. I don't cut the guys slack and I expect them to wear the uniform properly. I consider it to be just as important as all of the methods and try to treat them all as must-have parts of the program.

[scoutingagain]

OK, a question for posters for whom I have the highest regard (really) that have compared uniform wear to the Scout Oath and Law.

 

Just what unethical and or immoral choices has a scout made if he chooses to wear a non-scouting related T-shirt at summer camp or what points of the Scout Oath or Law have been violated? Or, heaven forbid he makes the unthinkable choice of wear a scout uniform shirt with blue jeans.(Not that I agree with this, but comparing proper uniform wear to adherence to the scout law raises the bar pretty high, huh?)

 

"Our summer camp "requires" full official uniform for flag ceremonies, evening meal, opening and closing campfire programs, Sunday chapel service. All other times the activity uniform is required.

 

Now, those requirements are followed to the letter by some troops, almost not at all by others.

 

The staff is always in full field or activity uniform right down to the official socks."

 

My son is on staff this year as well and spent $50 - $60 on socks, another pair of shorts and an additional activity T-shirt to round our his uniforms for the summer.

 

One plug for uniform wear though. Our Council Camp recently did an updated video/DVD. Several of the boys from the unit I serve are very prominent in the video. Why? Among other things they were wearing their unit activity shirts most of the time during the week the video was filmed. It's a real plug when we show the Council Camp video to prospective Cubs to show them boys in our unit doing things at Camp.

 

 

 

SA

[Hunt]

I'm fine with folks who believe and argue that full and complete uniforming is important, even very important. But I'm afraid you lose me if you suggest that it's AS important as the ideals expressed in the Law and Oath. So go ahead and argue that full uniforming is symbolic of respect for the program, that it promotes esprit, that it's an effective method, that we shouldn't pick and choose elements of the program, etc. Those arguments are all quite reasonable. But suggestions that deviation from uniform standards are a major ethical failing are just not persuasive to me, or, I suspect, to most people.

[acco40]

Okay, excuse me while I step up onto my high horse.

 

Scoutingagain and Hunt, I think you need a little education. There are eight methods of to Scouting. They are not prioritized. The Scouting program has decided (not us, but the BSA) that we should use ALL of these methods to accomplish the goals (or aims) of Scouting (character development, citizenship training and mental and physical fitness). Can the aims be achieved differently? Yes!!, but it would not be Scouting. We (assuming you are Scouters) signed on the dotted line to deliver the Scouting program, not just to try and reach the aims of Scouting in any fashion we choose.

 

When the BSA talks about IDEALS it literally means the Scout Oath, Scout Law, Slogan and Motto). These are tools we should use. Yes, the BSA (and Mr. Acco40) place The Uniform as on par with The Ideals (same with Patrol Method, Adult Association, Advancement, Personal Growth, Leadership Development and the Outdoors) as a tool.

 

I think you are confusing the IDEALS with the Aims. Can one have good characeter, be a good citizen and achieve excellent mental and personal fitness and not know the Scout Law or Scout Motto? Of course they can. Same goes for a Scout in a tan shirt and blue jeans. But, we did not promise to deliver that program. We should strive to achieve the aims of Scouting by using the tools (methods) of Scouting. What a novel concept!

 

Now, I'll step down from my high horse and stop my Bob White imitation (inside joke for most of us). Is it a big deal if a troop eats as one big troop and not as a gathering of patrols, decides Scout pants/shorts are a waste of money or decideds that they would rather not do outdoor activities? Well yes and know. I have no heartburn if to a man (or boy) that is what they want to do but then why did they join Scouts? If your son signed up in the fall for the school football team and the coach took all the boys to the ball diamond and had them practice double plays, bunts, hitting the cutoff man, etc. is that a big deal? Yes and know. Sports can teach the same aims regardless of which sport but if your son really wanted to be a football player, I'm betting that he would be greatly disappointed. Same goes with Scouts. If a boy does sign up to be a Boy Scout, don't you think we have a responsibility to deliver that program to him and not some imitation that we feel is alright?

[scoutingagain]

Acco,

 

I agree the methods are all equally important.(BTW, on the National site there are now only 7 listed, see http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=mc&c=mv What's up with that?) However, as you noted, the IDEALS of scouting are one method, and UNIFORMING is another, as are the PATROL METHOD, OUTDOOR PROGRAM, ADVANCMENT, etc. We have discussed in other threads that while all of these are equally important, it is not uncommon that individual units, for whatever reasons, may be strong in some methods and weak in others, even though, they may recognize that all the methods are of equal importance. For example, a small unit, with limited participation in an OUTDOOR PROGRAM may struggle with the PATROL METHOD, but is fully UNIFORMED, does well with ADVACEMENT, LEADERSHIP etc. A young unit may struggle with LEADERSHIP. These units, and it's adult leaders are not necessarily immoral or unethical any more than a unit that struggles with the UNIFORMED method.

 

Understand, I am not arguing against the UNIFORM method. I just don't see a scout in a T-shirt as a great moral failing. It's a weakness in a specific method, that can be worked on and strengthened within an individual scout and/or unit, but I don't see it as the equivalent of lying, cheating, stealing, or other truely moral or ethical lapse.

 

SA

[acco40]

Scoutingagain, please re-read my post above. The IDEALs are the Law, Motto, Slogan and Oath. Not "goodness", not "morality." I think you and I are on the same page but are having semantics problems.

 

Wearing a Simpson's t-shirt to camp is not a moral failing. My church doesn't use the Scouting IDEALS (it uses Scoutings IDEAS, much different). Do you repeat the Scout Oath and Law at the beginning of your troop meetings? Why? Is it not a colossal waste of time? You do it because IT IS A METHOD OF SCOUTING! So is uniforming. Would your son be any less moral if his troop did not repeat the Oath and Law and instead studied bible verses (or whatever religious text or moral teachings you believe fit)? Probably not and may even become "more moral" person if that was done instead but you know what THAT IS NOT A METHOD OF SCOUTING! That doesn't make it wrong, just not Scouting.

[acco40]

Seven methods? I could not find your reference. Check these out:

 

http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/resources/18-390 /index.html

 

http://www.scouting.org/identity/los/los.jsp?typ=l os&how=alfa&wat=M

 

Again, are you confusing the seven methods of Cub Scouting The Ideals, The Den, Advancemet, Family Involvement, Activities, Home and Neighborhood Centered, The Uniform with the eight methods of Boy Scouts?

 

 

 

[knottyfox]

Hello Lisabob!

 

You asked such a simple question that deserves an answer! I have read through the messages and it fascinates me that folks totaly missed answering the question and begin to get ugly with one another!

 

First things first, below is a quote from Lord Baden-Powell.

 

"I don't care a fig whether a Scout wears a uniform or not so long as his heart is in his work and he carries out the Scout Law."

 

Silly me for bringing up such a message as I feel confident that I am fixing to get hammered!

 

Second thing to mention here is another quote from Lord Baden-Powell.

 

"Scouting is a jolly game in the out of doors, where boy-men and boys can go adventuring together as older and younger brothers, picking up health and happiness, handicraft and helpfulness."

 

My thoughts are that this simple statement is often forgotten! Scouting is a jolly game! What a great idea!

 

I would like to answer your question with my own thoughts. I had the great honor of serving my sons troop as their Scoutmaster. With that being said, I suggest that you ask your sons Scoutmaster what Troop policy is and how to adhere to it. After all, if the Scoutmaster is going to summer camp it is they that will have to enforce the rules/guidelines. I do think it is important for your son to feel comfortable and fit in. Scouting Tee shirts are great! Plain Tee shirts are great! I would avoid loud designs and any text or graphics on the shirts, as they will be interpreted by someone as inappropriate. If your son does not have Scouting Tee shirts, I would ask if someone had extras. My son and I have collected so many through the years that we often give them away.

 

Please tell your son that Knotty Fox said,

"Good luck! I hope you have a great summer camp experience!"

[funscout]

Thank you Knotty Fox for reminding us that Baden Powell himself was not a stickler for uniforms. I think it's great when scouts and scouters are fully uniformed, but I agree with Baden Powell that it should not be as big a deal as many make it out to be.

[GernBlansten]

I work for a mega corp defense contractor. Dress code varies dramatically from coast to coast. Our corp headquarters in Maryland, anything less than a gray suit and conservative tie and you are in violation of the code. In our office in Colorado, if you wear a tie, you are interviewing for another job with another company. If you wear a shirt with a collar, you probably have a funeral to go to later in the day. The fanciest restaurants in our town think blue jeans are just fine as long as there is some kind of hem. (no daisy dukes)

Our scout troops kinda follow the same code. A "full uniform" generally is a clean tan shirt tucked into something resembling pants. Its unusual to see someone in a true "full field uniform", even at council or district events. Now we do have a few troops that demand complete compliance to the uniform method. Those troops just don't seem to be much fun to be around. Do I think we have a lot of room to improve in the uniform method? Sure. Do I put it at the top of our priorities? No. Don't get me wrong, I think it looks real cool when a troop shows up for flags with all the spit and polish of a military unit. I don't think my scouts appreciate it as much as me though.

 

I recent did an Alaskan cruise. During our 7 nights on ship, we had two formal nights. Since I didn't have any suit that fit me, I decided to rent a tuxedo on board for those nights. Gotta admit, it was kinda fun to get all dressed up as a penguin and do my best James Bond impersonations. Of the 2000+ guests on the ship, probably only 50 of us men were in full proper formal dress. Most just wore business suits. I see the same trends in scouting. Its becoming more casual (dress wise). Its a trend I don't see reversing.