Non-OA pocket flap patch?

[Cheerful Eagle]

ok, I'm willing to accept that...

 

but, *sigh* I'll never get the other cubbers to accept this. Here's why:

 

1. Cubs don't wear OA patches

2. Cubs constantly loose little pieces of paper

3. If I see a cub at camp whitteling, and he's wearing the whittle & chip patch on his uniform, I can instantly tell whether he ought to be using a camp knife. If he's not, or he's using it in a prohibited manner, I confiscate the knife and turn it over to the appropriate adult.

[emb021]

"Is it a vestigial remnant of some past time when it DID go on the pocket flap? "

 

What past time?

 

Tot'n Chip et al were only cards. Its only be since, oh, the 1990s or so that people started to make patches for them. I've never understood the logic of either having a patch (as someone noted, you can't tear a corner of one) or why someone decided to make them vagely flap-shapped. (I've always wonder if it might have been some scout leader figuring that only the younger scouts would want to wear a tot'n chip patch, and since said younger scouts would not in the OA, why not make it flap shaped so they can wear it there as an 'ego boost' until they are older and have been elected into the OA).

 

I don't mind souvenir patches, but you get some people who feel they just HAVE to wear said patch on their uniform, rather then using it on a patch vest, blanket, etc. (or just tossing it in their collection box) even if the patch doesn't belong on the uniform (there are several that DON'T).

 

 

[Cheerful Eagle]

Ok, this is somewhat off topic but...

 

I've been told, rather vehemintly, that whittle & chip cards WERE NOT to be torn, spindled, mutilated or stapled in any way (ok, I added the spindled etc part).

 

Now everyone here is talking about tearing corners.

 

I'm SO CONFUSED.

 

Does anyone know where such things are written? I'd appreciate a quote from something authoritative...

[Cheerful Eagle]

Nevermind, I just found the answer. Consider the whine ended.

 

http://www.geocities.com/~pack215/whittlin-chip.html

[KC9DDI]

That site still doesn't seem to mention about tearing off corners... I pretty sure that there is no official policy on this, and individual troops make up their own "corner cutting" guidelines. In my troop, we used to have some silly rule about "any scout with a rank higher than you can cut off a corner and if you loose all four you have to retake the 'Totin Chip Class'". We've since moved away from this, to the "common sense method": minor safety violations are addressed by a firm reminder of the safety rules, or as an excellent opportunity for the youth leaders of the troops to conduct a refresher skills instruction of proper knife/ax safety. More serious or repeated offenses are handled by adult leaders, and may involve revocation of knife/ax privileges for a certain duration of time.

 

In related news, there seems to be a fair amount of myth surrounding these mysterious Totin Chip and Firemn Chit cards. A popular one in my troop this time last year was that the "Paul Bunyan Chip" [sic] allowed you to use a ax to cut down trees in the forest, and some other stuff.

 

Basically, I think that most of the regulations involving the monitoring of appropriate knife/ax/fire use are troop-specific, and its probably better left that way. Just no sense in further spreading urban legends about this kind of thing.

[ManassasEagle]

Hey emb021, you said...

 

"Tot'n Chip et al were only cards. Its only be since, oh, the 1990s or so that people started to make patches for them"

 

...and I know for darn sure that we had the Totin'Chip patches for our uniforms in my Troop back in the mid 1970's. Even stranger, in our Troop, they didn't tear off the corners of your card, they literally cut off corners from your patch. Guess the only good thing there was that, being five-sided (and hence having five corners), the patch gave you "five strikes" before you were out

[Owl62]

Actually, there were Totin' Chip patches back to at least 1965 for sure and even earlier I believe. I was a Scout in the mid 60s and I was presented with both a Totin' Chip card and patch. The patch was white with a red border and embroidered lettering and emblem. It was pocket flap shaped and we were told to wear them on our right shirt pocket flaps unless we were in OA - then the lodge flap went there. I am not sure that the Totin' Chip patches where supposed to be worn on the pocket flap on not.

 

There is an interesting website on Totin' Chip:

 

http://totinchip.home.comcast.net/

 

It includes a page with images of the Totin' Chip patches.

 

There is a current version of the Totin' Chip patch sold in most Scout shops. I cannot find anything in the current insignia guide about it to include where to wear it.

 

 

 

 

[Kaji]

As Manassass Eagle can attest to, I'm sure, the general policy in NCAC is to wear the Totin' Chip patch on the flap sewn on 3 sides (top, left, right, leaving the bottom so you can button it), and then wear the OA flap sewn over it with a quick line machine-stitched across the top so that you can flip it up to show off the Totin' Chip patch if need be.

 

Personally, I appreciate the fact that there's a patch for it, because as someone else alluded to, it makes it very easy to keep track of who's allowed to be doing things and who isn't.

 

Also, another one for the Paul Bunyan myths: When I went through in the mid/late 90s, the word was that Paul Bunyan entitled you to use a double-bladed ax (which as we all know, is in violation of almost every safety rule out there for woods tools in the BSA...)

[featherbear]

There's one patch that I know *for sure* that Cub Scouts can earn and wear on the pocketflap. That's the Cub Scout Outdoor Activity Award.

 

http://www.lastfrontiercouncil.org/cubs-outdoor-activity/

[trailfinder52@yahoo.com]

In our council one troop has a flap patch which is their tradition and they use the left flap and place the OA patch on the right flap as per BSA rules. In Venturing we were discussing the Corps of Discovery a Proposed Venturing Honor Society which also has designed a flap patch, it is proposed for the left flap on the spruce green Venturing shirt and this is both for young men and women. Hope this helps.

[emb021]

"In Venturing we were discussing the Corps of Discovery a Proposed Venturing Honor Society which also has designed a flap patch, it is proposed for the left flap on the spruce green Venturing shirt and this is both for young men and women."

 

I am familar with the CoD idea, but have never heard their flap patch as being "proposed for the left flap". All the CoD patches I've seen worn have been on the right flap. Many Venturers and Venturing leaders refuse to wear the OA flap because the female Venturers can't join (that's fine, that's their choice). Of course, there are many who do were the OA flap.

 

[Lynda J]

When our troop takes part in an event that gives out a temporary patch, it that patch does not come with a buttom loop on it I take the patches home and sew a loop on them. THis way they can be hung over the button on the right pocket and changed as the boys want. I made Kevin a hanger to store his temp patches on. I sewed buttons on a strip of ribbon. He hangs the patches he isn't wearing on that. They don't get lost or damaged and it is easy to store them.

[SSScout]

1))The Totin' Chip as an earned patch dates AT LEAST to 1960. (Guess how I know that?). Back then, it was white with red border and red lettering and a red axe . I have since seen at least four different designs saying "Totin'Chip": another red on white, and three red on tan. The patch was to be worn on the right pocket flap, until one was OA, when the OA flap would be worn on right pocket flap OVER the T/C. The idea of tearing off a corner of your award card for an unsafe act is a Troop affectation. In our old Troop, if your stupidity warranted attention, your T/C was summarily revoked and one had to re-earn it. Now, how is it that we do Axe Throwing contests at Camporee?

2)) The Firemans Chit is new. Red on Tan, it denotes knowledge and skill in fire building and safety. Same corner cutting idea in some Troops if one "plays with fire". Also worn on the right pocket flap in most Troops, and so one can get a thick right pocket flap.

3)) The Whittlin'chip, for Cubs, is special. It is mentioned, in passing, only once in the Bear book, I believe, and then one has to go hunting to find any guidance about requirements. When I taught it to my Webelos, I used mostly my own knowledge of knives and Safe handling and proper sharpening. We carved soap figures. Messy but clean. As a patch. it is specifically NOT worn on the uniform (don't know why. The book states it so.) Wear it on your award vest.

4)) When I earned more than one tempo patch (from summer camps and Camporees, etc.) I learned to sew them back to back with a ribbon loop, and thus hang two at once that I could flip over if so moved.

Same idea with the nifty new plastic hangers one can get. Stuff two appropriately shaped patches in'em and turn 'em over occassionally.

 

Also see "Treasure of the Sierra Madres" with Humphrey Bogart for more guidance on ""Badges"" *wink*wink*

 

YiS

[epalmer]

As best I can tell the Totin' Chip and Firem'n Chit patches are for non-uniform wear, just like the High Adventure and Paul Bunyan patches.

 

Our Scout Shop has these in stock and I took a look at them a while back. They are simply not the right shape for the pocket flap- too narrow and too tall. They are the right shape to wear at the bottom of the pocket. I have no clue as to why these are designed like this.

 

Wearing them on the uniform is not useful. In a camping situation where the Scout is building a fire or using a knife, he isn't wearing the official uniform.

[SSScout]

epalmer writes:"Wearing them on the uniform is not useful. In a camping situation where the Scout is building a fire or using a knife, he isn't wearing the official uniform"

 

Oh, but wearing them on the uniform is very useful. As mentioned before, the badges Scouts wear denote their acquired proficiency and general knowledge. As Staff at Camporee, I find it very useful to see a First Class bdge on a Scout and expect a certain expertise. Same for Tot'n Chip.

 

I see many layers of shirt pocket flaps among senior Scouts everywhere I go in the Scout world.

 

And, anyway, in every picture in the Scout handbook and catalog, everyone's wearing the 'field' uniform, right? Look at Boy's Life. Uniforms!

 

A