Defending the Uniform Police

[Region 7 Voyageur]

In my opinion there are times when it is correct to inform another Scout or Scouter that they are wearing the uniform incorrectly. Let me give some examples.

 

Last night our troop had a court of honor. Several Scouts wore their merit badge sashes. One Scout that is two merit badges away from earning Eagle had his merit badge sash hanging from his belt. At a moment when I was able to talk to the Scout out of earshot of others I asked him to wear his sash over his shoulder and I explained why. The Scout quietly repositioned his sash. I am the Scoutmaster of the troop.

 

At two Blue and Gold dinners that I attended this year I saw adult Cub Scout leaders wearing an Eagle rank patch. If I had the opportunity I would have talked to those leaders and told them that badges of rank are for youth. Any person that has earned the rank of Eagle should have learned how to wear the uniform correctly. The opportunity did not present itself and nothing was ever said.

 

There is an adult Scouter in our district that wears a tan uniform shirt, both silver and green shoulder loops at the same time, An instructor patch on his left sleeve, service stars indicating 30 years of service with orange (Tiger Cub) backing, and a lodge flap for our councils lodge which he is not a member of. If the opportunity ever presents itself I will try to politely explain to this gentleman that others talk and laugh about the insignia on his uniform.

 

I do not go around openly correcting or criticizing others on their uniforms. I will suggest to a Scout in our troop that there is a correct way to wear the uniform. I will never correct a Scout in another unit. I will tell a fellow adult Eagle Scout that he should not wear the Eagle rank patch. I will tell a fellow Scouter in a quiet and discreet manner that he is wearing insignia incorrectly on his uniform.

 

I encourage the Scouts in our troop to wear the most complete uniform that they can. I have never criticized a Scout for wearing the uniform shirt without the uniform pants, socks, or belt.

 

I believe that there is a time and place for constructive discrete criticism if there are blatant uniform or insignia errors.

 

OK, start throwing the mud!

(This message has been edited by Region 7 Voyageur)

[scoutldr]

As Miss Manners would say, "criticizing how a fellow volunteer dresses can neither be constructive nor discreet. It's just rude."

[Beavah]

service stars indicating 30 years of service with orange (Tiger Cub) backing

 

???

 

He's wearing 30 Tiger cub stars? Tiger cub stars (orange backing) do not have year numerals, eh?

 

I think you've mis-identified an insignia. Which perhaps illustrates the hazards of becoming a self-appointed Uniform Cop.

 

I suspect more people talk and laugh about the embarrassing and counterproductive behavior of Uniform Cops than about other people's uniforms, eh?

 

 

[Region 7 Voyageur]

Beavah, the adult wears three 10 year service stars with an orange backing.(This message has been edited by Region 7 Voyageur)

[Eamonn]

Just to make sure that everyone understands.

There really is no such thing as the Uniform Police.

As I have admitted before in this forum. I'm very sewing impaired.

I have somehow over the years managed to amass a rather large collection of the tan shirts.

Some were from Staffing Wood Badge courses, some from Jamborees, some have District Patches on a couple have Regional Patches on.

Some have no knots on, some have a few and a couple have a lot of knots on.

One shirt does have a knot on upside down.

I know that it's upside down, but to change it would entail removing two other knots.

A few friends know that this knot is not right and do on occasion tease me about it. (We live in the sticks and need to find something to pass the time!!) I don't get upset and as a rule just take it.

I think I'd be OK with anyone asking "Hey isn't that knot on upside down?" in a nice and friendly way. Where as is they weren't so nice about it and made a big deal of it, I think I'd tell them to go and pound salt.

Many years back a Scout from the good old 17th Fulham (Pioneers). The Troop I was in as a Scout, where I earned my Queens Scout Award and later served as SM (Scout Leader in the UK) had his picture on the front page of the English Scouting magazine, with Queen Elizabeth II (Elizabeth I couldn't make it!)

Young Colin was a super Scout. He lived just across the road from the Scout HQ. I swear he could hear me turn the key in the lock. He seemed to always be there. Small C, was the name I gave him.

His Dad was from India and an alcoholic, who when he'd had a few too many would beat his wife and Colin. I think this was the reason why C submersed himself in Scouting and the Troop.

When we found out C was meeting with the Queen as part of the 1977 Jubilee, we bought him a new shirt. We all wanted him to look his best.

Sadly the World Friendship Badge was sewn on the wrong pocket.

The following month Scouting Magazine was full of letters to the Editor about C's patch.

As a rule we had one of the mothers sew C's patches on, but because I didn't get him the shirt in time he said that he'd do it, in fact his Mum did it and she is totally blind.

When I read the letters to the editor, I think I called each and every letter writer every cuss word I could think of.

This coming weekend we have a regatta coming up. The goal was to have all of the Ship in full dress whites, some of the uniform parts are still somewhere between California and Pennsylvania. If they make it, there isn't going to be time to get all the patches and stuff on them. Knowing my luck some of the parts are not going to fit.

As of now no one has a complete set (We are missing the tie) but I'm happy to allow the Scouts to wear what they have or wear the working uniform. We know that we are not going to get very high marks, but we have given it our best shot.

I did order the uniforms five weeks ago -Next time I'll know better.

I feel bad for the Scouts. They know I'm not happy, but they are kind enough to tell me that they think I've done my best.

I'm 100% for correct and proper uniforming.

I get a little upset with the SM of OJ's Troop (old Troop) he tells the parents that all the Scouts need is a shirt. I know that he knows better, he was the SM of the Jamboree Troop twice, has a Wood Badge. He is a real nice fellow. However he is a little upset with me for never asking him to get involved with training.

I don't think I could knowing how he runs (Yes he runs) the Troop.

Maybe I'm being vindictive, maybe I'm not being kind? But when I was looking for people to participate in presenting Training's and staff Wood Badge Courses, I looked at how people performed. This included uniforming.

Eamonn.

[evmori]

The Uniform Police might not be an official organization but they do exist! And they can be dangerous! Sure if we are going to wear the uniform it should be done correctly. But the Uniform Police place entirely too much emphasis it.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[purcelce]

Voyageur,

Not going to throw mud, but will congratulate you on "policing" the right way.

[campcrafter]

R7V

 

I think you're fantasizing - thinking you are part of the UP!

 

If you were really part of the UP you would have created an opportunity (and a scene) to correct Scouters at B&G w/ Eagle patches. You would also seek youth from other units to accost about improper uniforming, having them pull up their trousers to check for red bands on socks. Yeah, you're fantazing about being a uniform cop.!

 

I agree w/Purcel. As Scoutmaster it is your job to lead your boys and that includes teaching them proper uniforming. I personally would avoid mentioning any uniforming to any other adult no matter how wrong.

Ain't my business - I have more important things to worry about. The guy with the flap and whatever may have gotten it as a hand-me down or from a thrift shop and left everyhting on. Not right but - again ain't my problem.

 

I would suggest that since many don't read the lit that a large illustrated article be placed in the Scouter newsparer for your council. I think most probably at least look through that when it comes in the mail. Maybe some member of the UP here could write it?

 

CC

 

 

[acco40]

Some use "uniform police" as a pejorative phrase. Others do not. If a Scout was attempting to tie and knot and did it incorrectly would you point it out? Why? Knot tyeing is not one of the aims of Scouting.

 

If a Scout tied a bowline knot incorrectly I would not verbally reprimand him and heap ridicule his way. However, I would possibly show him (or have someone else show him) how to do it again, try another teaching method, etc. I have a boy in the troop who has his AOL patch sewed above his pocket. I discreetly pointed out to him where it belongs. His attitude was he didn't care where it was on his uniform and besides, his mother sewed it on, not him! He hasn't attempted to put it in the correct place. He is a first class scout going on his third year in the troop. This may become an issue wrt advancement. Do I hold a grudge? Is it fair? One of the things we ask for boys who hold a position of responsibility, like this young boy, is to demonstrate proper uniforming. An unwillingness to do so shows me something about the Scout that in my view is not "obedient" and does not demonstrate leadership. Is this unreasonable?

 

Take the guy who emerges from the restroom with toilet paper on his shoe. Is pointing that out considered rude? It all depends in the manner in which it is done. I remember an old "truth or Consequences" show where a female (plant) and male contestant were in the green room waiting to appear on stage. The female was wearing a skirt with her slip obviously showing. She would comment to the man, "How do I look?" before going before the camera. The wives of the males were asked to guess if their husband would point out to the young ladies if their slip was showing or not. Remember, this was about 40 - 50 years ago so societal norms were different. What does this have to do with the "uniform police?" Well, I for one would like to know if I am doing something incorrectly with my uniform is a discreet way. I do know of some "errors" I have (the adult Scouters wear a patrol emblem) but I always try to have a few shirts with "zero defects" and would welcome information that would make that a reality.

[SR540Beaver]

I'm with Acco and R7V on this one. If I'm walking around with my fly unzipped, I would appreciate it if they discreetly let me know rather than shouting across the crowded room, "Hey Beav, you left the barn door open!"

 

Proper uniforming is not difficult. There is only one shirt, one pant, one belt and one style of sock to pick from. They are all part of the complete uniform. Patch placement isn't difficult either. Certain patches go in certain places and in a certain order. They are supposed to touch each other. It is printed in plenty of places. It can be found on the internet. It isn't rocket science.

[scoutldr]

Yeah, and we have speed limits, and throwing your butts out the window is against the law, and getting a suntan is bad for you. Am I responsible for pointing this out to every violator I see? What's that bible verse about worrying about the log in your own eye first? The only obligation I have is to try to serve as a good example.

 

Let the UP who is without fault write the first ticket.

 

Sometimes we take this scouting stuff way too seriously.

[AvidSM]

Since the uniform is one of the methods of scouting, every scouter, in a way, is a member of the UP. If you are able to point out improper uniforming in a polite and constructive way, I say there is nothing wrong with it. I agree that you should not say anything to a scout outside of your unit. That's the job of their leaders, not yours.

 

What I won't defend are the people that insist on the full and proper uniform for Scoutmaster's conferences or BOR's. It is a big challenge for some boys to show up in full uniform. Some Mom's don't sew or don't have the time. And they grow out of their pants very fast.

[FScouter]

I point out uniform anomalies when I see them. The usual response is thanks, or maybe a bit of embarrassment. No one ever got huffy and made rude comments about police and told me to mind my own business. Maybe such indignation is just a phenomenon of an internet forum. I suppose if someone wants to knowingly walk around with the barn door open, that's their prerogative.

[Trevorum]

Some folks see the official BSA uniform as an opportunity to color within the lines. Others see uniforming as an opportunity to achieve the Aims. Then there are some who grudgingly accept the uniform as part of the Scouting package. We probably all know folks in each category.

 

I've been known to poke fun at the excesses of the UP. However, I've also been known to refuse to hold a SM conference for a Scout who showed up without a neckerchief because he "just left it at home".

 

I've recieved dirty looks from Scouters (never Scouts) because I wear the Inclusive Scouting Emblem, a non-official patch, on my optional patch pocket. I've also been criticized for wearing a patrol patch as an adult, as is the custom in our troop. I remember that I did NOT say anything when the SPL once wore pink trousers to a court of honor (his buddies did though!)

 

Sometimes I think it a matter of just seeing the forest.

[acco40]

"Some Mom's don't sew or don't have the time.

 

I don't have any Scouts in my troop who are mothers. Does anyone else other than AvidSM?

 

Trevorum - I've worn my "Me and My Guy" patch as a temporary patch. It is somewhat of an iside joke and somewhat of a political statement. I "earned" the patch by taking my daughter to a Girl Scout day camp last year.