Remove the collar from the uniform?

[OzarksOsage]

I've always thought that the neckerchief is the coolest piece of the uniform, and rarely wear my uniform without one. Neckerchiefs work best without a collar, but turning a collar under doesn't work very well, or look very good. Back in the day, my uniform shirts didn't have a collar, and neckerchiefs always looked great. Here's what I'm thinking: Why not have my wife remove the collars from my uniform shirts and convert them into an approximation of the V-neck shirts I wore as a scout?

 

OzarksOsage

[SSScout]

Go for it. I am in agreement. When the collars appeared on the uniforms, they made it hard for a neckerchief to fit appropriately, or "uniformly". Choices: N over the collar? collar points stick out from under. N tucked under the collar? better, but it doesn't seem to lay right. Turn shirt collar under, into shirt and N over shirt? looks better yet, but the collar is 'bunchy', as my son says, and is scratchy. I have tried ironing the collar so it stands up and stays inside the N but that doesn't stay. I even tried (forgive me U police) doubleback tape behind the collar to help it stand up, but that wilts in the heat.

Alot of the boys in our troop forgo the N for all the above reasons ("The shirt has a collar, whats the dif?" ) and conveniently lose the N in the detritus of their room at home.

Anyone else remember all the uses the HBfB listed for the N?? First aid sling, signal flag, sun bonnet, hanky, dust mask, swim trunks (took two!), ankle brace, strap for broken bone splint, etc. Now the N is a 'collectors item' so ya dasn't get it dirty, and the boys complain about wearing it, no matter the occasion. Cest la vie.

 

[SR540Beaver]

Ozark,

 

I'll send you all of my neckerchiefs as I am totally the opposite. It is the part of the uniform I dislike the most and only wear one when I absolutely have to. I am very hot natured and having multiple rolls of a fabric laying against my neck ensures getting a really good sweat going. I will be staffing a Wood Badge course this fall and am looking forward to it very much with the exception of HAVING to wear a necker the whole time.

 

I do like the necker worn over the collar and often turn my collar under when I do wear one. It isn't all that comfortable, so removing it would be the better option. But since I go without a necker the majority of the time, I would prefer to keep my collar.

[Cheerful Eagle]

Bros:

 

Honestly, the whole men's shirt style fits me about as well as can be expected. My personal hang up is the unfortunant placement of temporary patches [just think about it for a minute :-) ] Please, don't remind me of the CS women's yellow blouse thing (shudder).

 

For your interest...

I remember reading SOMEWHERE (don't you just love it when you can't find it again??!!) that the primary purpose of the neckerchief was to distinguish the scout uniform from a military uniform.

 

Found this at: http://www.threefirescouncil.org/History/1914.htm

 

1922: A new uniform replaces the Army-based one originally used by the BSA. This uniform is designed to avoid the confusion that existed because of the military appearance of the previous version. This version also added the famous neckerchief. Unfortunately, boys consistently refused to adopt this new uniform and it took years to be accepted.

 

[OldGreyEagle]

As an undercover Insignia Placement Enforcement Officer, top grade I am aghast you would even consider such hideous desecration of the uniform. Such willfull mutilation is a violation of the BSA uniform code as specified in the Scoutmaster's Handbook page, umm umm umm, its mentioned as prohibited in the Uniform Inspection Sheet in the third column under the heading, umm, umm, umm, I know its in the Patrol Leader Handbook under the heading, umm umm umm. I know I have a reference somewhere, you have no idea how hard it is to look up uniform references with one hand while the other hand is holding a stodgy old woodbadger with a dull silver beaver against the wall. Be back when I find it...

[John-in-KC]

Oh quit whining!

 

On a more serious (and respectful) note: As a youth member (1968-72 or so, thereafter in an Explorer Post where we wore neckties) I turned my collar in every week when in long sleeves. I had the collarless short sleeve, so...

 

As an adult, I turn my collar under still.

 

It's not worth the $$$ to have the shirt retailored sans collar.

 

 

[Trevorum]

Would you believe that even the men's necktie was once a functional article of attire? Now it is purely decorative (or not), symbolic (power), and is very uncomfortable.

 

The Scout neckerchief, borrowed from cowboy bandannas, is on a similar evolutionary path. No longer functional (as has noted by SSScout), it is also becoming decorative and uncomfortable (as noted by 'Beav).

 

That's sad, but not surprising, I suppose. What is funny is that I find myself wearing a functional bandanna with my activity uniform (some say: "Class B"). The 'ol bandanna shades my neck, absorbs sweat, and is wonderfully cooling when damp. I also regularly use the bandanna as a dust mask, headband, potholder, and handerchief. I have used bandannas as flagging on exposed guy lines, as direct pressure bandages, and torn and twisted as cord. Wouldn't want to do any of that with my fancy, dress uniform neckerchief ... they might not let me into the next Court of Honor

[resqman]

I too am from the day when the uniform was sold without a collar. Made it very easy and comfy to wear a neckerchief. The drawback is that you MUST wear a neckerchief because the shirt is so designed.

 

I am one of the few that enjoy wearing a necktie. If you buy a shirt that is the correct size for your body, meaning when you gain weight you buy a larger size shirt instead of just squeezing your neck into a too small shirt, neckties are not uncomfortable.

 

My son is hot natured, as am I, and he complains of wearing a neckerchief which is not optional as a Cub Scout. I started carving neckercheif slides to give him some incentive to wear his neckerchief. The question is now which slide, instead of arguing about wearing it at all.

 

The neckerchief does add a flair to the uniform and seeing an entire troop in Nerckers shows very well. I agree that the current neckerchiefs are fashion and not functional. I do vaguely remember having to fold the neckerchief and then rolling it. The trouble was the two points never seemed to line up and always looked abit askew. I do remember tieing many different first aid devices with a neckerchief.

[campcrafter]

I agree about the collar looking much better turned under with N. The collars are rathe large and can be unconfortable turned under so I would have no problem with removing it.

 

I also think the N should be larger and thereby more practical for the 101 uses listed in older HBfB.

 

It is sad that neckerchief slides today are DULL. Either store bought or a twist tie OR worse yet no slide with N tied in a knot.

 

I would like to see more crafted slides and hope to introduce this to our troop.

 

CC

 

PS. SSScout did you get my PM from other thread?

 

cc(This message has been edited by campcrafter)

[SSScout]

Campcrafter: Howdy.No, Ihave not received your PM. I've sent a few and never received a response either. Are they supposed to come in to your personal email or what? I think perhaps my spam filter might deny the PM. Is there a place to ask a question of our administrators?

Meantime, Ns are a non problem in our Troop . When you can 'lose ' it and not find it, you don't have to wear it, do you?

 

[Eagle69]

I vote for keeping the current shirt. I remember wearing the one that didn't have a collar and think it is still hanging in my closet. I very seldom wear a neckerchief, but always wear my Wood Badge Beads and on formal occasions my Silver Beaver. Wearing those without a collar would ruin both fairly quick.

[Newbie Den Leader]

In my day (1970's), they offered both collared and v-neck. I'm not sure why they don't today.

 

I always wear my neckerchief. It completes the uniform.

[jmenand]

I don't care much for the current collar style, but I do like collars generally speaking. I don't care that some think the uniform looks like military uniforms. I think that the addition of the world crest as a standard piece of insignia goes a long way to help identify the shirts as scout uniforms- and in the 21st century the neckerchief looks rather silly, especially on adults.

 

The current collar is too big. It reeks of 80's fashion. Going back to a more classic, timeless collar cut as well as cotton/wool material would be nice. As I said, having the world crest on the front of every uniform is great just by itself. Combined with the "Boy Scouts of America" lettering, I don't know of anyone who mistakes a scout uniform for a military uniform. After you add stuff like camp patches and lodge flaps, only a complete charlatan would think a BSA shirt was military.

 

All of that said, I like the history of the necker. I think with a more modest collar, and bigger, more functional neckers, a perfect balance can be struck. A shirt with a collar that looks fit and classic without a necker, and neckers that have a purpose and fit well over the collar.

 

In short, I say shrink the collars and enlarge the neckers.

[Newbie Den Leader]

The neckerchief is the traditional identifying mark of the scout uniform. IMHO, the uniform looks incomplete without it.

 

Adult leaders tend to avoid neckerchiefs because other adult leaders avoid them, just like they avoid wearing the scout pants.

[kraut-60]

I wouldnt go so far as re-tailoring a uniform shirt by removing the collar, but thats just me.

 

I would like a collar that can handle wearing a tie and not look sloppy. The neckerchief would be better served if it were to be again a square of 32" and less decorative and more functional.

 

The neckerchiefs now are too small to look right on an adult of even a small stature. I have found the MIL spec triangular bandage makes a dandy "field expedient" neckerchief that is large enough to be functional and practical. One has only to serge or hem the edges and voila',.. a necker like the old days, and you can make a proper sling out of it too!