MB Sashes

[KC9DDI]

I'm sure we all know that the MB sashes are often worn wrapped around the belt, rather than "correctly" over the shoulder. I wondering - is this really a bad thing? Wouldn't it make sense for the BSA to allow this as correct uniform? Perhaps produce a "mini-sash" with clips to fit on the belt, in the same color and width as the current sash, but only 16-18 inches long. Seeing as this is already the popular style, why not just make it official. In my opinion, it still looks neat and sharp - sometimes even better than with the sash worn over the shoulder. This might even make it more comfortable to wear the neckerchief, and make it possible to wear the OA sash (which is far more comfortable) at the same time as the MB sash.

 

Again, other than that this is presently not correct uniform according to National, are there any comments/thoughts?

[ericjude]

I've been on both sides of this: as a youth wanting to display (read "show off") my Boy Scout achievements as often as possible and as an adult trying to teach scouts that a weekend campout is NOT the place for a merit badge sash.

 

During uniform inspections the idea that sashes are for formal occasions is strongly taught. Any scout arriving for an activity with the sash is reminded that it's not a good idea. Most of the time, we're able to send the sash home with a parent.

 

As for the OA sash ... those are only to be worn during official OA functions. The youth should never need them during a weekend campout or a court of honor. The lodge flap should be enough. If they insist on displaying an OA sash, they use one of the miniature sash dangles.

 

[LongHaul]

MB sashes and OA sashes are just that SASHES not belt dangles. Wear it properly or leave it home. The debate over whether OA sahes are only to be worn at OA functions has never been resolved in stone. When I got mine in the 60's it was clearly only for OA functions. In the 90's a group came back from NOAC and declared it was OK for general wear to promote active participation in OA. I guess it's become a local option. According to the Insignia guide it's NOT worn hung from the belt at any time.

LongHaul

[ericjude]

My comments about the OA sash was in the context of my troop ... not national policy.

[emb021]

"The debate over whether OA sahes are only to be worn at OA functions has never been resolved in stone. When I got mine in the 60's it was clearly only for OA functions. In the 90's a group came back from NOAC and declared it was OK for general wear to promote active participation in OA. I guess it's become a local option. According to the Insignia guide it's NOT worn hung from the belt at any time. "

 

Sorry, but as a long-time arrowman (and vigil honor member), I don't know the basis for this.

 

We have always emphasized in the OA that the only time its appropriate to wear the sash is at OA events or at events in which you are doing something as a member of the OA. 'general wear to promote active participation' does not count! It usually means you are part of a special 'OA detail' at a ECOH or council event. As someone else has pointed out, the OA Lodge Flap & OA ribbon function as the day to day indication of OA membership (and general promotion of the OA). Wearing an OA activity patch (Lodge, Sectional, NOAC) I think is a better way to promote active participation then the sash ('hey, what is THAT neat patch?' 'oh, that's the patch for NOAC I just got back from. You could have gone too had you stayed active in the Lodge...')

 

 

[KC9DDI]

"MB sashes and OA sashes are just that SASHES not belt dangles."

 

I realize that - hence the idea to create a new uniform item. Just to be clear, I am not and do not advocate the improper wearing of the Scout uniform - as long as MB's can only be worn on a sash (and the long sleave shirt), that's how they should be worn. I was trying to stimulate discussion on a change in uniform policy, permitting some sort of belt-dangle to be worn, which seems to be regarded as nicer looking and more comfortable by the scouts.

 

As for the OA sash, I'm not sure whether its allowed to be worn outside of OA events, which is another discussion entirely. However, often I see scouts attempting to wear both at once, and it bothers me a lot more to see the OA sash wrapped around the belt than the MB sash.

[SemperParatus]

Rather than modifying the sash for belt wear, why not just have boys sew the merit badges directly on their pant leg?

 

You would have basically the same look without the expense.

 

[ericjude]

Semper ...

 

We'd still have the same problem that we have now: how many are allowed on long pants vs. short pants. I can see little Johnny now, with merit badges ringing both bottom cuffs of his scout shorts!

 

Seriously, I agree that the wide (three across) merit badge sash requires quite a bit of attention. By the time I reached Eagle, I had to resort to safety pins to keep it on my shoulder. And I admit that I forgot it more than once at the scout hut.

 

If the narrow (two across) are still available new, I don't know. I've only ever seen them for sale used. But they appear to be just the right size to fit under the epaulet (like the OA sash). Just being able to do that would make them easier to wear.

[LongHaul]

Emb021,

Who exactly is this "we" to whom you referr? The basis for my statement was the information recieved by our delegation to a NOAC. Where are the rules made and/or changed? National Order of the Arrow Conferences. Another thing that comes back from NOACs is the reminder that there are only two levels of membership in the OA, Ordeal and Brotherhood. I assume you meant to say you were a Brotherhood member who has recieved Vigil Honors. Many of us were upset when our registration cards stopped saying Vigil Member and started saying Brotherhood Member so I can understand your reference.

LongHaul

[LongHaul]

KC9DDI,

Just to clarify there is no stipulation that the merit badge sash can only be worn with the long sleeved shirt. The Insignia Guide 33066E showes the proper positioning of the sash and the scout in the drawing is wearing a short sleeved shirt.

LongHaul

[Oak Tree]

LongHaul,

 

I believe that KC9DDI is referring to wearing the merit badges either on the sash OR on the sleeve of the long sleeved shirt (up to 6). I've never seen a boy actually do that, but it's clearly legal.

 

Oak Tree

[emb021]

LongHaul:

"Who exactly is this "we" to whom you referr?"

We = Arrowmen, members of the OA.

 

"The basis for my statement was the information recieved by our delegation to a NOAC."

 

So. They are mistaken.

 

"Where are the rules made and/or changed? National Order of the Arrow Conferences."

 

No. NOAC is not were rules are made/changed. That is done by the National OA Committee, which mets in December. NOAC is the venue were some of these changes (like the logo change, change from being 'national honor camper's society' to 'national honor society of the BSA') are announced.

 

I have been to almost all NOACs since 1990. There has been no policy change with wearing the sash.

 

" Another thing that comes back from NOACs is the reminder that there are only two levels of membership in the OA, Ordeal and Brotherhood. I assume you meant to say you were a Brotherhood member who has recieved Vigil Honors. Many of us were upset when our registration cards stopped saying Vigil Member and started saying Brotherhood Member so I can understand your reference. "

 

Hooboy. Sorry, but there are NOT 'two levels of membership in the OA'. I have never heard that stated. There is only ONE level of membership. There has been work to make sure that people don't think of Ordeal, Brotherhood, and Vigil are membership degrees or levels. I have never heard of Vigil Honor as being refered to as that. If your lodge is no printing "Vigil Member" on your cards, that's your lodge's decision. My lodge still does that.