Uniform Disputes...

[JM_Ecuador]

" Your skater kids are going to show up in pants 6 inches too long with legs so large that shoes can't even be seen. Your goth kids are going to wear nothing but black jeans. "

So, you say that they have to wear clothes that fit. Black isn't allowed because it's BLUE jeans.

And it doesn't have to be blue jeans. It could be olive green pants, or or black, or whatever the national assembly were to decide. The important part is that it is 1) locally available and 2) reasonably priced.

What makes it a Scout uniform are 1) color, 2) style, and 3) insignia & necker.

Without the third, it can't be considered a Scout uniform, no matter if it is regulation.

A person wearing non regulation shirt and pants would be recongized as Scout if it had the patches and a bandana.

 

YIS

JM

[Hunt]

"Uniformity in blue jeans? Last time I looked, there were about 1000 styles and a multitude of shades."

 

I agree that this might be less uniform than the ideal, but I still think it might be more uniform than the current reality, in which so many troops wear all sorts of different pants.

[dan]

JM_Ecuador

Not sure if know this or not, but in the BSA a hat or bandanna/neckerchief is not required piece of the uniform. They are considered an optional part of the uniform. Just an FYI. I am not getting into this debate again.

 

 

[JM_Ecuador]

" Not sure if know this or not, but in the BSA a hat or bandanna/neckerchief is not required piece of the uniform. They are considered an optional part of the uniform. "

I did not know that, but then I have never been a member of the BSA.

That's funny though, because in Ecuador (and much of the world from what I have heard) the necker is the most basic part of the uniform. Nobody ever does ANY Scouting events without it on.

[dan]

Most troops that I see do not wear a neckerchief, now I am just looking at a few troops around the district I am in, but from the discussions on this board, very few troops seems to wear them. There have been many discussions on this board why troops do or do not wear them, and who should decide if a troop wears them or not.

 

I am curious about Scouts of Ecuador, the Boy Scouts of America uses the Aims and Methods to deliver scouting.

 

The Scouting program has three specific objectives, commonly referred to as the "Aims of Scouting." They are character development, citizenship training, and personal fitness.

The methods by which the aims are achieved are listed below in random order to emphasize the equal importance of each.

Ideals

Patrols

Outdoor Programs

Advancement

Personal Growth

Leadership Development

Uniform.

OUTDOOR ACTIVITIES

 

The above was copied from www.scouting.org

 

Do the Scouts of Ecuador have anything like the BSA AIMS and Methods?

 

[JM_Ecuador]

" Do the Scouts of Ecuador have anything like the BSA AIMS and Methods? "

Yes, it's called the 'metodo educativo' which consists of learning by doing, youth leadership, and values.

All this is delivered within the 'marco simbolico' wich consists of the traditions, law, uniform, promise, etc. If you like, we could spin off another thread in which to discuss the diferences between the programs.

 

YIS

JM

[dan]

If you could post the learning by doing, youth leadership, and values and anything else that is relevant that would be great, a spinoff would be great.

 

[Torveaux]

While there may be quite a few differences in blue jeans, the current pants rules provide little more uniformity.

 

1) Shorts or Pants

 

2) Poly/Cotton Poly/Wool or Cotton

 

3) All outdated uniforms are still OK.

 

4) Like blue jeans, olive pants fade (and at different rates depending on material.

 

It is not only the pants either. There are a variety of sock types and shirt types allowed as well. The combinations are many.

 

I guess Uniformity is in the eyes of the beholder.

[Lisabob]

Regarding youth being thrifty and working to pay for their own uniform parts:

 

That can be a good plan IF the unit is willing to be flexible while the kids are accruing the various parts. One troop around here tells the kids that they are expected to have the full uniform by the end of their first year, and to start with the shirt. In that unit, I can see this approach working just fine. Another troop is a real stickler for uniforming for all members including those who just joined, and the kids really ride anybody who shows up without a piece. This troop also has special hats and scarves that can only be purchased through the troop, are considered part of class A, and are fairly expensive. A boy who is earning his way to buy the uniform might be uncomfortable here until he had all the parts. (and let's face it, most of the parents just buy everything anyway so the child who is earning his own way will be a distinct minority.) Maybe this would inspire him to work harder and get that uniform faster. On the other hand, maybe he would just stop attending.

 

Lisa'bob

[Lisabob]

ok while we're here in this thread let's talk about that cub uniform. Admittedly I'm not a huge fan of uniforming anywhere but I can at least understand more of the rationale behind the boy scout uniform than the cub uniform. I suspect some parts of the cub uniform were designed for "cuteness" rather than even a pretense of function. If we were to make changes and go with a more affordable uniform, there are all kinds of things we could do to change the cub uniform.

 

I went to scoutstuff.org to figure the cost of uniforming a brand new scout with all new items.

A typical Tiger cost $104.50

A typical Wolf or Bear cost $108.55.

A typical Webelos in the blue uniform cost $117.60 (tan=$115.05)

A typical Boy Scout cost $112.45

 

For Cubs this includes the short sleeve shirt, pants, socks, belt with appropriate buckle, scarf, slide, hat, a council patch and the other required insignia, and the book. For Webelos I also included the Webelos colors.

 

For the Boy Scout I included pants, short sleeve shirt, socks, belt & buckle, scarf, slide & hat, council patch & insignia, and book.

 

Now it is certainly true that a lot of this stuff can be found for much less money elsewhere, as long as the buyer knows exactly what to look for (a bigger problem for brand new Cub parents with no prior exposure to BSA than for most boy scout parents). That said, I still have a problem with a lot of this in the Cub ranks because:

 

1. Too much of the cub stuff changes from one rank to another, necessitating annual outlays for new uniform parts. If we want to be sticklers about uniforming then the boys should be wearing the proper components for their current rank, such as...

 

The hats and scarves, which change every year (except from webelos 1-2). At $11.80 per hat that's $47.20 somebody is paying for hats during cub scouts. This is one of the few items people really might not want to buy used (ick, sweaty old hats).

 

Scarves from Tiger-Webelos cost a total of $20.55.

 

Slides change from Tigers to Wolf/Bear to Webelos so that's three slides for a total of $6.90 for slides (assuming nobody loses the darn things.)

 

There are separate Tiger, Wolf/Bear, and Webelos belt buckles. If you buy a belt (with buckle) as a Tiger and only buy a new buckle as you change ranks, you pay an additional $6.55 for the Wolf/Bear and Webelos buckles.

 

For hats, scarves, slides, and additional buckles alone, you could pay a total of $81.20 for the duration of the cub program.

 

It would certainly be cheaper to have just one version of each for all cubs, and I don't see how it would detract from the program in any way. At least in the boy scout uniform, the parts are the parts and don't change with each rank.

 

2) I really hate those Cub scout pants, which I'm convinced are poorer quality, a worse fit, and a less practical color than the boy scout pants - and nearly as expensive! Personally I'd be all for adopting jeans as JM suggests. They're cheaper and they just might fit my skinny, long-legged child, while those darn cub pants never did. (or hey, maybe BSA should include suspenders in the Cub uniform - I swear about half the kids in my son's former pack could've used them to keep the Cub pants from falling off! Or perhaps Cub Scout underwear, for those unfortunate times when the pants really do slip a bit too far.)

 

Lisa'bob

A good old bobwhite too!

[JM_Ecuador]

WOW, that's alot of uniforms.

I Ecuador everyone uses the same uniform except for Scouters.

Also, within a group, all packs, troops, and crews will use the same necker. That means that all a kid has to change on his uniform are patches until he outgrows/wears it out.

Also, things in Ecuador tend ot run cheaper. We charge US$40 for: Shirt, slide, Necker, hat, t shirt, and group patch.

If neckers are too expensive, make your own. Tuk head knots look very stylish, especially if made from a natural looking fiber.

 

YIS

JM

[emb021]

In most countries the uniform (or atleast the colors) is different for each program: Cub, Boy, Senior, Rover, adult (or whatever these levels are called). And if you have Sea &/or Air scouts, they have different uniforms/colors as well.

 

 

[JM_Ecuador]

Diferent uniforms for diferent sections? sounds interesting.

Here Cubs wear diferent hats, Rovers wear red shoulder straps, and Scouters have blue shirts, that's all the diference there is. That and patches.

 

YIS

JM

[Kahuna]

I think originally the uniform distinctions were designed in part to prevent Boy Scouts feeling ripped off because their little brothers could join scouting and partly to give the younger kids an additional incentive to stay on when they reached a certain age. Maybe those rationales are overtaken by todays scouting? I don't know. I'm amazed it costs $104.00 to uniform a Tiger Cub and I didn't know that there were that many uniform changes in Cubbing.

 

Of course, a lot of units maintain a closet of "experienced uniforms" and you can find a lot of stuff at Goodwill or Salvation Army. Every little bit helps.

 

I guess Sea Scout uniforms, not made by the BSA, work out to be the best deal going, especially for those who are close to Naval bases where thrift shops always have tons of cast off uniforms. Sailors just junk 'em when they ship out, rather than go to the trouble of cleaning the grime off their whites. We can pick them up for $1-$5 per item and cleaning is easy.

[Eamonn]

As I said I really don't care what the uniform is, just as long as we are all on the same page.

Over the time that I have been in this forum Uniform has always been a hot topic. I think no matter what changes were made some people would not be happy.

Jeans might seem like the answer to everyones prayers but I can hear the cotton haters saying how useless they are. Camo? I can hear people saying that we look like a right wing something or other.

I don't claim to know what the real uniform standards are in other countries. I have camped with Scouts from all over Scandinavia and it seemed that a shirt and necker was the uniform. Same with Scouts from Ireland and Holland.

I tried looking up the cost of a uniform in the UK and it seems that a uniform for a Lad of about 15 years old would cost 67 pounds or about $110.00 (Slightly less if you go with shorts which happen to be on sale this week!!)

Having been on the "Outside" looking at Scouts from the USA, I have to say when they are in full uniform outside of the USA they are very striking and look great.

I know this isn't the real world and even though my son has several full correct Scout uniforms, he does at times leave the house carrying his Scout Shirt. But at the same time I have seen him tell other Scouts that they can't be part of the color guard at OA weekends because they are not in full uniform!! - He is a lot tougher that I am.

Eamonn.