Scout won't wear uniform-contradicts beliefs

[LongHaul]

My question to him would be "Are you embarrassed because someone will find out you are a Boy Scout or embarrassed by the uniform?" If the boy is Ok with everyone knowing he is a scout, he would be in plain view if at a meeting, why the problem with the uniform when everyone else is in uniform? Sounds to me as if there is some peer pressure going on here. The boy has been active but now is embarrassed by the uniform. Maybe a discussion with the SM and SPL or with the other members of the troop this boy identifies with might help him past this hurdle without loosing the benefit of scouting. I dont think the SPL and PLC should make exceptions to the rule for this scout, personally I think the uniform is part of the program.

LongHaul

[Lisabob]

Whether he stays or goes, I would think a discussion with the boy about mis-using religion to get out of something he just doesn't feel like doing may be in order here too.

 

Lisa'bob

A good old bobwhite too!

[John-in-KC]

Peer pressure can be both a positive and a negative. One option for the young man is to see if this is the only Troop in the area that fills the bill. Sometimes a young man needs peer pressure from a different peer group; one that celebrates the Scout uniform.

 

I also like another idea presented a few posts back about the SM holding back on "Scout Spirit" if the boy doesn't understand "A Scout is Brave" and have the moral courage to wear the uniform.

[fgoodwin]

Interesting discussion. I agree that uniforming is a method, and should not directly affect advancement as an added requirement.

 

But I've heard our SM say if a boy were not in full uniform for his BOR with all the parts properly displayed, he (the SM) would send the boy home.

 

Now, denying a BOR to an otherwise qualified boy because he either didn't wear, or didn't wear properly, his uniform sounds like adding to the requirements to me.

 

My son always wears his uniform and he wears it properly (as best as his mom and I can assure!), so this "requirement" doesn't affect my son, but I can see how such a requirement might affect the boy who was the subject of the first post in this thread.

[Prairie_Scouter]

This is interesting.

 

The question is whether a unit can require uniform wear as was noted by someone. I think I'm kind of with Ed on this one unless someone can provide more definitive information. Uniforming is a method, but I don't think anyone can force the wearing of the uniform. Does anyone know of any published BSA information that clearly settles it one way or the other?

 

If a unit can require uniforms, then it's pretty clear. If the boy doesn't want to wear the uniform, he should find another unit. But, it's also clear that once that boy is accepted by a unit, knowing his feeling on uniforms, the unit can't hold him back because of it. That would be adding an advancement requirement, which is expressly forbidden, whether it's for the ever nebulous Scout Spirit, or anything else.

 

I know a lot of teenage Scouts who wouldn't be caught dead wearing their uniform where a schoolmate could see them. Yet, they are very good Scouts; it's just the peer pressure, and I don't think it's really Scouting, it's the uniform itself, which is not exactly a fashion item, and in this day of fashion consciousness, that does matter. No teenager wants to be seen as "uncool", and sometimes clothes define that. That doesn't make them "not brave" or anything of the sort; there's nothing "morally brave" about wearing the uniform; it just makes them a kid trying to get along in the world as best they can. By the time they hit 18 and make Eagle, Scouting is cool again, and it won't be a problem.

[Torveaux]

I don't think I would change the uniform requirements of the unit, I would however, seriously consider finding a better location for meeting.

[Venividi]

> it's also clear that once that boy is accepted by a unit, knowing his feeling on uniforms, the unit can't hold him back because of it.

 

I don't think that is clear at all. One, there is no indication that the issue raised in the initial post was from a new scout joining, but rather it appears it is from an existing scout.

Two, to draw an analogy, choose another method, such as outdoors or lerdership, or patrol. If a scout had "bad feelings" about any of these, and therefore refused to go outside, hold a leadership position, or belong to a patrol, should a SM hold him back (I am assuming from rank advancement)? In each of these cases, rank advancement can be used as the "carrot" to entice the scout to rise to the challenge and grow in character to get past the fear of being seen in uniform, going outside, taking resposibility as a leader, being a participating member in his patrol, etc.

[evmori]

Are the methods requirements? I would say no. They are ends to reach the aims but they aren't required.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Venividi]

evmori,

I agree that methods are not requirements; they are methods to achieve the aims. The methods are supposed to be used together to achieve the aims. The requirement that applies here is scout spirit. I believe that a unit can use a scout's attitudes on uniform, and refusal to wear it, as a factor to consider when evaluating scout spirit, and whether an individual has met the standards the unit has for that requirement.

Hence, my disagreement with the statement that a unit can't hold a scout back for a refusal to wear the uniform because they feel embarrassed to wear it. I think that a unit can choose to, or choose not to, consistent with how they implement the program to achieve the aims.

 

[Kahuna]

I realize that the uniform is a method as are other parts of the program. However, I don't see how a Scout can be, well, a Scout, without the uniform. I don't know, maybe if a whole troop decides to not wear uniforms they could run some kind of program, but you can't have some kids in uniform and some not, IMHO.

 

I believe the reason that a uniform is not required is 1) to avoid the expense to those who can't afford it - can be avoided by keeping a uniform closet of "experienced" uniforms; and 2) to give religious groups who object to uniforms an out.

 

In Sea Scouting, uniforms are relatively difficult to obtain unless you live next door to a Navy base. Most units either own their uniforms or at least keep a closet of old Navy stuff for the kids.

 

I just don't think it's that big a deal to keep the kids in uniform for scouting activities. I certainly don't expect them to wear them out where their non-Scout friends can see them.

[evmori]

Scout Spirit is defined as living the Oath & Law in your everyday life. How does not wanting to wear the uniform contradict that?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[fgoodwin]

"Scout Spirit is defined as living the Oath & Law in your everyday life. How does not wanting to wear the uniform contradict that?"

 

Very true -- so why bother to wear a uniform at all?

[Venividi]

I think a unit can be internally consistent and see the wearing of the uniform as one factor in demonstrating "loyalty" to his troop/patrol. There is also scout spirit involved in how a scout goes about completing the duties of one leadership position, one of which is to properly wear the scout uniform (paraphrased), the last time I looked, anyway.

 

I personally don't have a problem if a particular unit discounts the wearing of the uniform. For a unit that doesn't see a tie in between wearing the uniform and demonstrating scout spirit, it shouldn't be a factor when signing off on scout spirit for a scout in that unit.

 

Similarly, a unit that does see a tie-in, and does have expectations on the uniform as a factor to consider when evaluating satisfactorily meeting the scout spirit requirement, the unit can do so, and (in my opinion) is acting within the guidelines of BSA in doing so.

[evmori]

Why wear the uniform at all?

 

Because you want to. Because you are proud to be a Scout or Scouter.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[fgoodwin]

"Why wear the uniform at all?

 

Because you want to. Because you are proud to be a Scout or Scouter."

 

OK.

 

The boy doesn't want to wear his uniform -- does that mean he isn't proud to be a Scout?

 

So, how can he be ashamed to be a Scout and still live the Scout Oath and Law?