Scout won't wear uniform-contradicts beliefs

[Eamonn]

OK so I've never ran across a situation like this.

I don't think that the Committee can do anything.

The CO can.

However for a moment let's suppose you belong to a unit with that rare breed of CO that isn't involved and isn't going to get involved.

While we all know that Uniform is a method of Scouting, we do at times forget that owning or wearing isn't required to be a member of the BSA.

If I was to guy who had to deal with this, I would meet with the parents of the Lad and try to find out why?

Is it the entire uniform that is the problem or maybe it's just the Flag on the uniform? If it was just the flag I would see if there was any way that the Lad could wear the uniform without the flag? I kinda think he can, but I don't know so I would check it out.

If it was the entire uniform, I would fall back on the Rules and Regulations of the BSA, which state that a uniform is not required for membership. I would be OK with that.But if I wasn't I would go and talk to the CO and see what their feelings are.

I'm all for the Methods of Scouting, but they don't work if the Lad is asked to leave.

Eamonn.

[evmori]

I'm not hammering anything on anyone. Just trying to make a point to those "we have to do it by the book" people. And the point is required uniforms ain't in the book.

 

I am all for the uniform. I wear mine to all Scouting functions. I encourage the Scouts in my unit to wear theirs and for the most part they do. We hold uniform inspections periodically and explain the importance of wearing the uniform correctly. We don't, however, require the Scout to wear their uniforms.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Hunt]

I wouldn't necessarily assume that this decision is based on religious beliefs. I think it's appropriate to ask for an explanation.

 

I would also say that if you don't think individual units should establish rules that go beyond what BSA requires, why should this one be any different? In another thread, we're talking about whether a troop should have a settled definition of what "active" is for purposes of advancement, and it's been argued that rather than having a rule, it's better to teach and counsel. It seems to me that Ed is now being criticized for making a similar point about uniforming. (Although maybe I might suggest to Ed that if he feels compelled to bring up the point about BSA not requiring a uniform again, he might want to include the point about wearing and encouraging the uniform in same post, so people don't think he's denigrating the uniform.)

[evmori]

(Although maybe I might suggest to Ed that if he feels compelled to bring up the point about BSA not requiring a uniform again, he might want to include the point about wearing and encouraging the uniform in same post, so people don't think he's denigrating the uniform.)

 

Read my last post, Hunt.

 

I do encourage Scouts to wear the uniform. Encourage not require. The uniform isn't required.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[TheScout]

Ed, Your theory seems to take all power from the Chartering Organization and the Troop Leadership to run a troop. What rules do you think they can make?

[Trevorum]

I'm completely with Ed on this one.

 

We make all sorts of exceptions for youth who have trouble with other methods. Boys who have trouble with standard advancement requirements (for medical reasons) are given options. Boys who can not belong to a patrol (for family or locational reasons) are given options (ie, Lone Scouts). Boys who inherently shy away from leadership (yes, there are those!) are given other POR options (eg., librarian, historian, etc.).

 

These are all fairly rare situations, but we make allowances for the unfortunate fellows who are thus affected because we know they will ultimately benefit from Scouting (the Aims). I think it should be the same for those rare cases of Scouts who can not wear the uniform for religious or other bona fide family reasons (fashion sense is not a valid reason).

 

Ed is right, we want to encourage all Scouts to make full use of the uniform as a method for achieving the Aims of Scouting, but lets remember that methods are not aims themselves

[evmori]

Ed, Your theory seems to take all power from the Chartering Organization and the Troop Leadership to run a troop. What rules do you think they can make?

 

Huh? I would suggest you re-read my posts. I am not advocating anything like this.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Hunt]

I think the possible point of confusion between what Ed and TheScout are saying is this:

The CO probably has the power to require all scouts in the unit to own and wear uniforms. It has the power to set all kinds of membership and even programmatic requirements that go beyond what BSA sets out. Thus, it seems to me, a CO could decree that you can't be in the troop unless you own and wear a uniform.

What Ed is saying, I think, is that units can't add to rank requirements. Could a CO decree that no scouts in their unit can earn Eagle without earning the Cooking merit badge? I don't think so. Does a uniform requirement add to rank requirements? I can see the argument, but I don't think it does, except to the extent that any overall membership requirement does.

The charter agreements I have seen require the CO to administer the program according to "its own guidelines and policies and those of BSA," which I take to include the advancement policies.

Finally, a separate question is whether a CO or a troop should impose a uniform requirement, as opposed to whether it can.

[Kahuna]

The CO and thus the committee has the power to require a boy to own and wear the uniform to be a member of that unit. In my troops, there was no question that members would wear the uniform. If a boy couldn't afford a uniform, we would get him one. If he had a religious or other objection to wearing it, he was welcome to join another troop and we were happy to help him locate one. The advancement issue doesn't come into it at all. It's a membership issue.

 

Of course, as has been pointed out earlier, not everybody feels it's necessary and that's fine. That's why there are multiple troops in most areas.

[John-in-KC]

I'm with the many who've said courteously inquire to the nature of the parents objection. If the parents are indeed hard over on this, and if the parents understand what the source of their objection is, then the choice is either to support them, and gain the Scout, or to be rigid, and lose the Scout.

 

My thoughts.

 

 

[Trevorum]

Good thoughts from Hunt, Kahuna, and KC. Indeed, there are lots of different troops to choose from (at least in most places) and that's precisely why Webelos are encouraged to shop around.

 

I recall seeing one troop with everyone in campaign hats. That's a big ticket uniform expense to require for membership. Some guys undoutedly went elsewhere because they thought that uniform requirement was excessive; but I'll bet the guys who joined had great espirit de corps!

[tmonahan]

FOLLOW UP:

The scoutmaster spoke to the scouts mother and here is what happened.

1. The scout wrote the note and just had his mother sign it.

2. There is no "beliefs" issue.

3. The scout does not want to wear his uniform because we have our Troop meeting in the school that he attends and he doesn't want anyone/friends to see him in his uniform because he is embarrased. NOTE: Our troop meetings run from 7:00-9:00PM and there are many other activities going on in the school at that time. Our meetings are held in the cafeteria which anyone must pass by to enter/exit the building.

4. Mother called council as asked about uniform requirements. Council stated that each troop sets its own requirements.

5. Mother said that he he was made to wear his uniform that "we would lose him as a scout".

6. Scoutmaster suggested that the scout send a letter to the SPL indicating his desires regarding uniform. The SPL would then discuss it with the SP to determine the request.

7. Scoutmaster also suggested that the scout possibly take a look at the other troop in our town(there is only 2) if his requested is turned down by the SPL/SP.

8. All adult leaders agree "we are a uniformed unit".

 

Keep you posted on the result.

 

[evmori]

Now that makes sense! I would suggest to the PLC they switch from the full uniform to a Troop

t-shirt for Troop meetings. There might be other Scouts in the Troop who feel the same way and there might be potential Scouts who would not join because of the uniform requirement.

 

Let us know how things work out!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Cubmaster Mike]

Horsefeathers.

 

I just read several key issues in the follow-up with the mother.

 

1. Her son wrote a lie and she knowingly signed it. Not a shining example of the Oath or proper parenting.

 

2. Son is embarrassed to be seen as a Scout. Not committed to the program.

 

3. Threatened to quit if he had to wear a uniform. What's the next level of threat? Will he quit if he doesn't get his way on another item?

 

Keep the uniforms and if the boy can't handle it, then point him toward another program. I wouldn't change your troop program to keep a boy who lies, is embarrassed by scouting and threatens your organization with ultimatums.

 

CMM

[Hunt]

My suggestion is to tell him that he's welcome to stay without a uniform, but that he should understand that he can never be signed off for Scout Spirit if he's too embarrassed to be associated with the program, and that unless and until he changes his mind he can't advance.