Religious knot question

[wahoonfp]

Hi. We just started an Ad Altare Dei program in our parish. I'm a registered CS den leader, but have a BS son and am doing the program with him and others. About half of the boys have already earned the purple knot as Cub Scouts.

 

My questions:

 

1) I had been told that Boy Scouts could wear the purple knot if they had earned it as Cubs--even before they would get an emblem as Boy Scouts. Another mom told me only the Arrow of Light moves up to the BS uniform. Can someone clarify?

 

2) Does anyone use device pins? I read that the boys who already earned the knot can wear a BS device pin (along with a CS or Web device pin depending on what they had earned before. Do boys who are earning their first emblem (and knot) get a BS device pin also?

 

Thanks for any help you can provide.

 

[johndaigler]

Hi, wahoonfp, WELCOME!

 

Your Boy Scout can (should!) wear the knot for earning his religious emblem as a Cub.

The device pins are worn to show when the award was earned.

Check with your Unit and/or religious org. to determine who will purchase medals, badges, pins, etc.

You can double-check this info with the insignia guide.

 

jd

[ScoutNut]

The youth religious knot can be worn by anyone (Cub, BS, Venturer, Adult) who has earned a religious award as a youth member. This means that yes, the knot can be transfered from the Cub Scout uniform to the Boy Scout uniform.

 

Only one knot can be worn regardless of how many awards he has earned. This is where the knot devices come in. They are tiny pins that denote the level the boy was when he earned each religious award. He can wear a knot device (on the knot) for each award earned (including the first).

 

The unit is not obligated to purchase either the knot or the knot device for the boys. It is a nice thing to do, but some will buy only the knot, some will buy both the knot & the knot device, & some will not buy either. If your unit does not provide the knots or the devices to the boys, parents can purchase them at their local Scout Shop themselves.

 

Our Cub Pack gives the knot with it's knot device for the first award. After that we present the knot device. Our CO's BS Troop does not provide the boys with either knot or device. My son wanted to keep his on his Cub shirt so I purchased him a new knot, 2 devices for Cubs & 1 for Boy Scout. He still has his last award to earn.

(This message has been edited by ScoutNut)

[LovetoCamp]

Thanks for the info about the devices. My sons and their Wolf Den completed the God and Me program this summer. 5 of the 6 who started finished. We had the parents present the medal, knot, and certificate to the boys in front of a Sunday service. The pastor, who's dad was a long time Scoutmaster, helped the boys earn their Bobcat, so we let him award the Bobcat patch that same time. I thanked him, and thanked the members for letting us borrow him all summer, pinned on the Counselors lapel pin, and almost got him to become an Assistant Den Leader for this year. The cost of the medals, knots, pins, certs, and manuals, was well worth the expense.

[wahoonfp]

Thanks for the information. Our Scout Store has never had anyone request devices, but she is going to order some for us. And I'm very happy to find out that my son was not wearing his knot on his Boy Scout uniform all year in error!

 

Are the devices like the Web activity pins or arrowpoints? I hope they stay on well and that the backs don't try to fall off like other pins.

[ScoutNut]

They are smaller than the Webelos activity pins. Actually, you can get a "parents pin" when you order your medal. They are kind of cool & are about the size of the BSA rank parents pins. They are also considerably bigger than the knot devices (that will give you some idea of the devices size - think tiny). The religious parents pin are nice for the "mother's ribbon".

 

One other thing that you might not know about the Catholic awards - you can get replacements. Your local CYO (or whatever organization is handling it) keeps all of the paperwork. If one of your boys loses his medal all you have to do is give them the name, & approximate date earned. They will then look it up, verify it, & sell you a replacement medal. Works for Girl Scouts & Campfire too!

 

BTW - Get as many folks from your Council, CO, & Unit, to the recognition ceremony at your local cathedral in February, as possible. Drag your local paper along as well. It will be a memorable event!

 

Are you the trained counselor for the boys? You might be interested in looking into other Catholic awards. Check out the NCCS website for info on the Rosary Patch, Duty To God, & International Awareness Activity programs.

 

http://www.nccs-bsa.org/emblems-awards/awards.php

 

 

[wahoonfp]

Thanks for the info on the devices. I'm still not sure how they stay on through the knot and shirt if they're so small--but I'll guess we'll learn!

 

Our diocese, I won't say which one specifically, is struggling a lot with organization for its scouting program, especially where we live. My biggest challenge of running AAD is going to be actually GETTING the medals at the end. Took months to get our twins Light of Christ last year, and there were communications breakdowns all over the place. Is this a problem for anyone else around?

 

I'm not a trained RE counselor due to this lack of organization--trainings are few and far between and far away geographically. However I've become the parish "go-to" person for such items because I've done the prior emblems with my sons.

 

I've done the Rosary Patch here for 2 years and we're doing year 3 in October. We have about 30 kids and Scouters earn that one each year, and for two years our diocesan paper has run a picture of the group. We did about 20 this summer for the Year of the Eucharist patch, which was very cool. Haven't done Intl Awareness yet. What does one do for Duty to God--it seems a little vague?

 

 

[msnowman]

We have trouble keeping the Webelos device on Nephew's knot, so I use a bit of super glue. It lasted for about a year's worth of washings and needs to be redone, but the stem is so short on the tiny pin that the clasp barely holds through the knot and the shirt.

 

YMMV

 

Michelle

CM - P102

[emb021]

"Thanks for the information. Our Scout Store has never had anyone request devices, but she is going to order some for us. And I'm very happy to find out that my son was not wearing his knot on his Boy Scout uniform all year in error! "

 

Really? That's suprising. The knot devices are also used by scouters to indicate they've received multiple awards from different programs and the like. I wear a couple on my uniform for that purpose.

 

"Are the devices like the Web activity pins or arrowpoints? I hope they stay on well and that the backs don't try to fall off like other pins. "

 

They are very small. About the size of an eraser head. I've never had a problem with the backing poping off mine. But, they are cheap. So I have several extras just in case.

 

 

[SWScouter]

wahoonfp wrote, My biggest challenge of running AAD is going to be actually GETTING the medals at the end. Took months to get our twins Light of Christ last year, and there were communications breakdowns all over the place. Is this a problem for anyone else around?

 

I haven't had that problem at all. In fact, I've had great response. This past year, I first faxed in the forms for Parvuli Dei and Light of Christ so they could get the paperwork started, then when they received the forms and payment, they immediately mailed me the medals. The whole process took about a week. I did the same thing the year before.

 

I prefer to delay ordering the medals as long as possible because there always seems to be a few boys who complete their work at the eleventh hour. The diocese seems to understand this too. I always call in time and find out when we should start the process depending on when the presentation will be performed (by the pastor during a Sunday mass)

 

SWScouter

[rkfrance]

A quick clarification for the original post. The purple religious knot and the awards that are associated with them are not BSA awards. They are awards of religious organizations. The BSA believes it is very helpful and rewarding for all Scouts to participate and be recognized for religious awards as part of their duty to God.

 

The Arrow of Light is a Cub Scout award, and the only Cub Scout award that can be worn on the Boy Scout (or higher) uniform.

 

On another side note, meritorious awards earned during Cub Scouts would also be tranfered onto the Boy Scout (or higher) uniform. They are not awards earned for Cub Scouting, but as a recognition of heroism while in Scouting.

[madkins007]

re: Device availability- our Scout shop carried them, but I bet we sold fewer than a dozen total a year. (FYI- you can also use the devices on some other knots, although which ones escapes me right now!)

 

re: staying on- good luck! These are among the most lost parts of the uniform- forget to take it off and wash it, take it off and lose it, have it fall off during a meeting, etc.

 

I don't know a lot of people that pay much attention to the devices- I only wear mine at COHs, etc.

 

A few random thoughts:

 

1.) If most of your boys are working with one church, then you ought to be able to find someone there to help expedite the paperwork- most churches have done this before at some point in hisory!

 

2.) Often, the church will help out with the awards- our church, for example, bought the medals.

 

3.) When working with 'mostly' boys from one church, BE SURE to give the 'other' boys similar opportunities! Our mostly Catholic pack had a 'religious award coordinator' on the committee who worked with den leaders to make sure that non-Catholic boys had the same kinds of benefits, etc.

[wahoonfp]

To SWScouter, I did give advance notice (about 3 months notice that we were doing it, and 6 weeks advance order and payment for the medals) to our diocese that my sons were doing Light of Christ last year (because we wanted the medals presentation on a weekend that the grandparents could be in town) but it didn't help--at all. Discussion with other Catholic parents around shows I'm not alone. I just keep hoping maybe it'll fix soon.

 

I do intend next week to notify the diocese that we have 10 boys working on this--to make sure that medals will be available for the bishop to present in February. Does five months notice seem like enough? :-) Given the fact that the AAD application includes a BOR at the end, I don't think I can send paperwork in sooner than that, can I?

 

 

I'm going to see if our church or Knights of Columbus is willing to pay for the medals for the boys. We have an unusual situation here as far as CO--our program is strictly parish based, and we ran ads in the bulletin and attracted ten scouts from five different troops! Half of the boys are from the troop who's CO is another Catholic parish (but belong to ours), but the others are scattered to other CO's, both nonCatholic and non-religious.

 

As I said, I'm a CS DL, and have talked (and will continue to) with the other parents in my den to make sure they know that emblems are available for their faiths as well--but I haven't had any try for it yet. How can we promote this as a pack?

 

Our pack's CO is the public school PTO where my sons attend. When my sons got their knots last year at the pack meeting, the Cubmaster and Committee chair did a VERY nice presentation, so the boys and parents there knew that scouting considered earning your religious emblem a big deal.

 

I'm enjoying this thread! Thanks.

 

 

 

 

[johndaigler]

rk, well played

 

jd

[ScoutNut]

Actually rk, the religious knots & the devices that can be worn on them ARE BSA recognitions. The religious awards themselves are NOT, but the knots ARE. The purple religious knot can be worn on the front of BOTH the Cub Scout & Boy Scout uniform shirt. A Boy Scout does NOT have to earn a religious award as a Boy Scout in order to be able to wear the knot on his Boy Scout uniform. If he earned a religious award as a Cub Scout he can still wear the purple knot on his Boy Scout uniform even if he never earns any other religious awards.

 

He can also wear the purple knot on his Adult Leader uniform later in life.

 

wahoonfp - It is a shame you are having such problems getting the medals. Our Office of Youth Ministry is a bit understaffed, but if I give them a call they will have the medals ready for us to pick up in just a day or two. We can also order them by mail. Another possibility is that some councils are now being allowed to sell the medals. Our council is one of those. It is a bit of a pain because they have to collect all of the paperwork & can only order a set amount at a time & have to wait until they are gone to re-order. The medals go fast & you need to give them plenty of advance notice. All in all I find it easier to just go pick them up myself.

 

As far as promoting the religious program to the whole Pack, you might try looking at the PRAY publishing website. They have some materials that might prove useful. You can display one of those nice, large, color posters of all of the different medals at one of your Pack meetings. Your Pack might even purchase one booklet from each religion represented in your Pack & have them on display too. Sometimes being able to actually look at some of the materials will grab their interest.