Class A uniform vs Class B uniform

[Prairie_Scouter]

Eeeek! Ok, Bob, I surrender the point

 

[Bob White]

Unless you have other evidence regarding the Philmont shorts the tag you mention only shows themn as a BSA inventory item. Nowhere are they listed as official uniform and they are not available through BSA supply but only from the Philmont Tooth of Time Traders. While at Philmont we were told specifically when we asked about the shorts that they were not official uniform. The official uniform for Boy Scouts only includes the green pants and the green shorts at this time as evidenced on the new BSA supply web-site.

 

Many items are official Scout apparel but not official uniform pieces.

[madkins007]

Philmont shorts, expedition hats, and a few other items are often thought of as 'official uniform', when (as far as I can tell), they are not.

 

I had been told, many moons ago, that the Philmont shorts were 'uniform' only for Philmont staff, who were Explorers/Venture and had selected such for their uniform as they were allowed to do.

 

The Expedition hat (one of my faves) is listed as 'an approved activity hat' which many people take to mean 'uniform', but it never seems to show up in the Insignia Guide as such.

[Hunt]

"Doesn't the Activity Uniform include troop-designed T-shirts? Is it written somewhere that the T-shirt must say BSA or have the logo?"

 

Bob, you answered, "Yep." Are you saying that a troop-designed shirt MUST include "BSA" or a BSA logo? It can't just say something like, "Troop 123, Anytown, Wisconsin" with a picture of a pine tree? I would appreciate knowing where that rule is to be found, because we are thinking about making up some troop and/or patrol T-shirts.

[John-in-KC]

You're on.

 

Tonight when I get home, I will transcribe, word for word, both sides of the tag in my Philmont shorts.

 

I will also describe the BSA fleur-de-lis contained within the "National Council" circle.

 

When I'm done doing that, I will ask a simple question.

 

 

[Bob White]

John lots of clothing is licensed to the BSA. That makes it licensed apparel, it does not make it a uniform piece. Do not confuse the two categories. The uniforms of the BSA consist of specific pieces of apparel. You can learn more by attending basic leader training.

[aaron]

This is my first time to the forum, however, it seems the discussion didn't revolve around my question. My concern is they are wearing the T-shirt with our Troop # on it rather than the olive shirt and scarf. I was asking for suggestions on how to get the troop to always wear the olive shirt and was also wondering if any other troops ran into this concern.

 

Thanks, Aaron

[Bob White]

Aaron, sorry for the digression. Baden-Powell many years ago said something that directly relates to your situation. He said "Show me a poorly uniformed troop and I will show you a poorly uniformed leader.

 

Until the Scoutmaster and all other leadewrs begin to wear the correct uniform nobody else will. I commend you for wanting to do the right thing, My suggestion would be to sit with the scoutmaster and talk about the inportance of the uniform and see where he intends to go with that information.

 

It's tough for some leaders to change their stripes unfortunately. A common attitude seems to be if you do things wrong long enough you convince yourself you are right regardless of what the BSA program teaches you.

 

You have a difficult challenge ahead. I wish you luck.

BW

[EagleInKY]

You do have a challenge before you. The best way to get it going is to model it for them. Be a role model as a leader and wear the uniform with pride. Talk to the PLC about doing the same. Ideally, the SM would get on board, but you may have a challenge there. I wholeheartedly agree with Bob's quote about the adult leadership being your major hindrance.

 

I was fortunate to start a troop from scratch, so I didn't have to overcome this baggage. We wear the full uniform (i.e. yes, pants too) every week. We do "class Bs" from Summer Camp to the start of school, which gives everyone a little break from it, especially in a hot summer like this one has been. We also sometimes have meetings where we're going to be working (cleaning the trailer, building Klondike sleds, etc.) or doing something physical (playing a ballgame, etc.) and the boys are told ahead of time to wear appropriate clothing.

[John-in-KC]

Bob,

 

Considering tonight is my first mid-session Wood Badge patrol meeting tonight, I think that I will defer re-attending the NEW LEADER ESSENTIALS POSITION SPECIFIC TRAINING for the Scoutmaster or Assistant Scoutmaster (or the Troop Committee member/Troop Committee Challenge) (basic leader training is no longer an approved training term!) for a bit.

 

As I said, I will transcribe the tag tonight after I get home. Let's both let it rest until then.

 

 

[evmori]

Aaron,

I really see nothing wrong with wearing the Official Boy Scout (Class A) uniform to troop meetings. This might not be the best choice if the meeting plan was to help a neighbor clear brush or you were painting nesting boxes, etc.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10 (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[Bob White]

John congratulations on continuong your training. Wood Badge however will not cover the basic information on scouting such as uniforming that is covered during your basic training "(a perfectly acceptable term when refering to the group of courses that make up the various basic training requiremnments rather than to a specifc course)". Reviewing this information that was either forgotten or missed could help you to better understand other aspects of your role in scouting.

 

Ed

Knowing and understanding the uniform policies does not make one a cop. Knowledge of the program and its structure is a good thing to have for commissioners. By the way two of my brothers are Law Enforcement Officers, it is unfortunate that a Scout leader would use the term 'cop' in such a derogatory way.

 

 

 

[evmori]

I meant no disrespect to anyone in law enforcement by my use of cop. And I'm sure Bob, you are the only one who felt I used the term in a derogatory fashion. Wrong again!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[John-in-KC]

I'm at home now.

 

I have nine different garments I've drawn from various closets. Were I to go to my car and get my two Scout shirts, Venturing shirt, and 3 pr of Scout shorts, the data points would increase to 14.

 

Garment 1: Cub Scout shirt, ca 1965-68 (mine): Label has the First Class fleur-de-lis within a circle of Boy Scouts of America National Council. Surrounding the circle in a semicircle is BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA. Horizontally underneath are OFFICIAL SHIRT and SANFORIZED

 

Garment 2: Boy Scout shirt, ca 1970-72 (mine): Label has the Tenderfoot fleur-de-lis within a circle of Boy Scouts of America Be Prepared. Surrounding the circle in a semicircle is BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA. Horizontally underneath is OFFICIAL SHIRT

 

Garment 3: Boy Scout shorts, ca 2004 (sons): Label has the Tenderfoot fleur-de-lis within a circle of Boy Scouts of America Be Prepared. Horizontally underneath is OFFICIAL UNIFORM and in smaller letters SEE BACK FOR CARE. The following alphnumeric is in the upper left corner: RN21328

 

Garment 4: Boy Scout shirt (mens L), ca 2004 (sons (he's 6'): Label has the Tenderfoot fleur-de-lis within a circle of Boy Scouts of America Be Prepared. Horizontally along the top is OFFICIAL MEN'S SHIRT with care instructions underneath. The following alphnumeric is along the left edge: RN21328. The alphanumberic CAT59493 is in the lower left corner.

 

Garment 5: Boy Scout Trousers (mens 33-33), ca 2004 (sons): Like garment 3, this label has the Tenderfoot fleur-de-lis within a circle of Boy Scouts of America Be Prepared. Horizontally underneath is OFFICIAL UNIFORM and in smaller letters SEE BACK FOR CARE. The following alphnumeric is in the upper left corner: RN21328.

 

Garment 6: Scout red jacket (mens XL), ca 2003 (mine): This label has the Tenderfoot fleur-de-lis within a circle of Boy Scouts of America Be Prepared. BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA in fine all uppercase is across the top; OFFICIAL JACKET is to the right of the fleur-de-lis. The control number is WPL 6635.

 

Garment 7: Scout red jacket (mens L) ca 1965 (bought new in the bag off eBay) (sons): Label has the First Class fleur-de-lis within a circle of Boy Scouts of America National Council. BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA in fine all uppercase is across the top; OFFICIAL JACKET is to the right of the fleur-de-lis. There is no control number.

 

Garment 8: Philmont shorts (waist 33) ca 2003 (sons): Like garments 3 and 5, this label has the Tenderfoot fleur-de-lis within a circle of Boy Scouts of America Be Prepared. Horizontally underneath is OFFICIAL UNIFORM and in smaller letters SEE BACK FOR CARE. The following alphnumeric is in the upper left corner: RN21328.

 

Garment 9: Philmont shorts (waist 46) ca 2003 (mine): Like garments 3, 5 and 8, this label has the Tenderfoot fleur-de-lis within a circle of Boy Scouts of America Be Prepared. Horizontally underneath is OFFICIAL UNIFORM and in smaller letters SEE BACK FOR CARE. The following alphnumeric is in the upper left corner: RN21328.

 

Looking at all the OFFICIAL UNIFORM tabs within these 9 garments, I conclude garments 8 and 9, Phimont shorts, have tabs consistent with other modern era articles of the official BSA uniform, particularly green shorts and trousers. I further conclude the wording of official uniform (shirt)(jacket) on the tabl is reliably consistent across the previous 40 years. I assess the Philmont shorts, articles 8 and 9, are designated by BSA Supply Division as articles of the official uniform and are suitable for wear with field or activity uniforms.

 

I will let others put their forensic evidence on the table now.

[madkins007]

John-in-KC-

 

I really REALLY hate to point this out, but the 'official uniform' tag in the clothing does not necessarily mean that it is official for all programs equally (as evidenced by the tag in the Cub shirt). Like I said, as far as I can tell it is only 'official uniform' for Philmont staff.

 

For it to be official uniform for Scouts, it would have to be listed in the Insignia Guide, which it is not.