Hats Off???? or Hats On

[Kudu]

> If saluting in uniform with hats on outdoors (which I'm sure it probably was)

> was in common use by Boy Scouts on June 15, 1916, then it's okay now!

 

BSA uniform hats were worn INDOORS as well, but this was back in the days when hats were more common and everyone knew the rules.

 

In fact, the BSA went to considerable effort to update the photographs and drawings of Scouts and Scouters wearing hats indoors when the "field cap" replaced the campaign hat.

 

For a collection of 35 photographs and drawings from BSA Handbooks showing Scouts and Scouters wearing hats indoors, see:

 

http://www.inquiry.net/uniforms/hats/inside.htm

[Proud Eagle]

So if the "activity uniform" is not in fact a uniform, why do we call it by that name?

 

If it is a uniform then it would seem the salute would be proper, just as a salute is proper for a soldier in mess dress, dress blues, class A, class B, or BDU.

 

Of coarse, that is just my humble opinion.

 

Also, I happen to be a member of the "it is OK to wear hats inside" croud... but then BSA caved on that one as well a while back, so I generally don't, just because if you do somebody will get up in your face about it. Heck I once saw a Camp Commissioner and a Scoutmaster nearly get into a fight in a dining hall over that. The SM was of the opinion that Scouts wearing hats indoors was perfectly fine. The Camp Commissioner was of the opinion that neither the Army nor the BSA thought it was fine. (though he seemed to be far more emotional about what they used to do back in the service...) Unpleasant moment all round.

[Lynda J]

Sorry everyone. But I will continue to show my flag the respect it deserves by removing my hat at the raising or lowering of Old Glory. And I will expect my boys to show their flag that same respect.

At our summer camp one of the calls at flag twice a day was. "Scout remove hats". Maybe that isn't by some written guidelines but it is one that I feel our flag deserves.

[FScouter]

While removing one's hat during the raising of colors may show respect, wearing the Scout uniform with the Scout hat does not show any disrespect at all.

[Hunt]

I looked at the Flag Code, and it refers to "persons in uniform," rather than specifying military uniforms, so presumably the Scout uniform would count. It does refer to the "military salute," though. The Scout salute is, in essence, a modified military salute. Perhaps it's close enough.

 

What surprised me in the Code was the statement that when the Pledge of Allegience is recited, "persons in uniform" are to remain silent and salute.

[BSA_Bugler]

Sorry everyone. But I will continue to show my flag the respect it deserves by removing my hat at the raising or lowering of Old Glory. And I will expect my boys to show their flag that same respect.

At our summer camp one of the calls at flag twice a day was. "Scout remove hats". Maybe that isn't by some written guidelines but it is one that I feel our flag deserves.

 

Lynda J,

 

Doesn't the scout salute render honor to "your" flag as well? I certainly don't believe I, nor my Scouts, are disrespecting "Old Glory" when we render the Scout hand salute in our Activity, or Field, Uniforms with our heads under OFFICIAL "covers". I believe we are acting OFFICIALLY and in accordance with the best traditions and protocol of the BSA, as well as rendering the highest honor to our National Ensign!

[Greying Beaver]

Don'cha just love those old drawings and photographs, carefully posed and everybody in complete uniform?

Our troop has a simple policy: When in Rome, do as the Romans do. If the Romans are silent on this question, if indoors or out and you are in complete uniform, give the hand salute. If you are not in complete ("field") uniform, i.e., activity uniform, place your hand over your heart.

[FScouter]

This comes up from time to time.

[Gold Winger]

"I looked at the Flag Code, and it refers to "persons in uniform," rather than specifying military uniforms, so presumably the Scout uniform would count. It does refer to the "military salute," though. The Scout salute is, in essence, a modified military salute. Perhaps it's close enough."

 

If you dig into the US Code, you'll find that the Boy Scout uniform is defined right along with the uniforms of the Army and Navy. So in the eyes of the government, the Boy Scout uniform is "a uniform" (TITLE 10, Subtitle A, PART II, CHAPTER 45, 772, paragraph (j))

[John-in-KC]

Just a comment:

 

President signed into law a change to the US Flag Code last year.

 

Veterans, at any time and any place, may render Honors to the Nation with the Armed Forces hand salute.

[ManyHats]

What about a female leader that has BSA hat with class B uniform?

[acco40]

This old dog needs a few more whippings!

 

While in uniform, taking off one's hat shows about as much respect as taking off one's pants. Next time you watch a sporting event, parade, etc. where there is a military color guard - watch how many individuals of the color guard remove their hats. I'll give you a hint, it is less than one.

 

While in uniform, indoors or out, during a flag ceremony one should not remove their hat for the purpose of the flag ceremony. Now if one is in a house of worship or any other place where the removal of a hat is customary (flag ceremony or not) then go ahead and remove the hat.

 

Again, while in uniform, indoors or out, during a flag ceremony one should not remove their hat for the purpose of the flag ceremony. The BSA has more than one uniform (and none of them start with "class"). Thus, if the Scouts want to keep their troop hat on while wearing a Scout t-shirt, scout shorts and scout socks - that's great.

 

My big pet peeve is the goofy looking right hand to the chest, elbow out, pivot at the elbow salute that some troops do. Where in the heck did that originate?

[Gonzo1]

 

In this case, I think the course director is trying to do the "right" thing, but really, with cubs, what's the harm of them saluting in or out of uniform. It would probably make them feel more like a "team member" if they salute in the camp uniform. I know, it's not the absolute letter of the law, but they're cubs.

 

If the "uniform" is the camp t-shirt and some kind of hat, let 'em salute. Boy Scouts too, if that's the uniform. In the military, we referred to the "uniform of the day" which could be anything as prescribed by the commander, including civilian clothes.

 

BrianTShore,

Bring your case to the camp / course director off to the side, not as a distraction to others.

 

There is legislation being proposed in congress to "allow" Army veterans (maybe others too) to salute while in civilian clothes.

 

 

[Gold Winger]

"There is legislation being proposed in congress to "allow" Army veterans (maybe others too) to salute while in civilian clothes."

 

Wouldn't this create a "special class" of civilians?