Can Adult Scouters wear medals earned as Scout

[BSAChaplain]

I love this forum because even when I don't know where to look, one of you does. Plus I learn new stuff about Scouting all the time.

 

I read this post when it first went up and took out my Eagle medal the very next week and wore it for the first time in 21 years to an Eagle COH. It felt good. Now I am helping a Scoutmaster in another troop schedule the COH for his troop's first Eagle. The very question of adults wearing the medal came up. I couldn't tell him exactly where BSA publishes that statement, but with a quick search of the forums, I found it thanks to you. (Eamonn: I think you are using an older Insignia guide, my 2005 has it on page 25, rather than 22)

 

I insisted that he could wear his medal (he is also an Eagle, earned in days gone by) he insisted that it was not allowed. Now, if I can just tell him this without sounding like "I told you so."

 

I'll toss in my two cents on the Blue and Gold Dinner(B&G)question. I think that while a B&G is a very special event, unless there is for some reason an Eagle focus it does not constitute what the book describes as "a formal Eagle occasion." I would consider an Eagle Court of Honor or an Eagle recognition dinner as the two regular events in our council. Maybe a Council Dinner, especially if a Distinguished Eagle is to be recognized. However, I'm not going to tell the Den Leader who has put in week in and week out of service to take it off at a B&G. (I sure wouldn't correct someone who wore it on their suit or uniform to Scout Sunday services either.) So, I think this is intentionally ambiguous and left to some small degree to the individual's own decision.

 

Well thanks again to all of you for your wealth of of Scouting knowledge, and your willingness to share it. Tonight I have the privlege of sitting on two more Eagle Boards of Review and hearing about the difference Scouting and Scouters like you has made in a young man's life.

 

Keep on Scouting

[Beavah]

"Members wear only the insignia that show their present status in the movement. Members should make every effort to keep their uniforms neat and uncluttered. Previously earned badges and insignia - not representing present status - [should be moved to a patch vest or blanket, etc.]"

 

Dat's in my copy of the Insignia Guide, page 4.

 

I read this to mean that when you shift positions, you remove knots associated with your former position. Thus if you move from a pack to a troop, you remove the Cubmaster Award, Den Leader Award(s), Cub Scouter Award, etc. Similarly, a district or council scouter should remove unit leader award knots; someone who is no longer a commissioner should remove the Distinguished Commissioner award, etc.

 

While the youth religious emblem square knot is allowed on the adult uniform, I've never been comfortable with this. What is it really saying? "I'm proud I got to a 10-year-old's understanding of my faith?" I personally believe that the better example is to wear only the adult religious emblem award/knot when it is earned. "See, kids, this is an area where you keep growing and learning more." And I think cubs should remove the knot from their Boy Scout uniform until they earn the Boy Scout level award. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[OldGreyEagle]

Gee beavah, I sorta kinda in a way disagree with you... and agree with you

 

The scouter's uniform is his visible resume. If I meet another scouter I dont know much about, but I see he has an assortment of Cub Scout knots, I know he was a leader in the Cub Scout program. Then if I see a Scoutmaster's key award and training knots, Silver Beaver, Disrict Award of Merit, etc I know his experience in the Boy Scout Program and I think the Venturing program has a knot or two as well. By wearing knots, you can see what type of experience the person has had.

 

Then, on the other side of the coin, the prescence of a load of knots on a uniform doesnt tell me much about the person, only that he/she was able to gather a bunch of knots. No telling under what circumstances. It may be better to allow the person's actions define himself rather than the knots he wears.

 

I have alternately thought they should do away with knots, then I think they are a fine thing. I think wearing knots and having youth understand these are a measure of the time and talent a person has given the program is a good thing then again if the wearer of the knots regards having the knots as more important than the youth, then thats not what its all about either.

 

If they did away with knots, would it kill the program?(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[EagleInKY]

Absolutely KNOT, OGE. But, then again, I'm knot an expert.

 

I wear my knots. I'm proud of them, but I don't live and die for them. In fact, I know there are a couple of knots I qualify for that I've never filled the paperwork for. I guess someday I will. But it's just not that big a deal.

 

I'll disagree with Beavah. I believe you can wear whatever knots you've earned. As a den leader I earned the den leader award, and I still wear it. As cubmaster, I earned the cubmaster award. I still wear that too. As OGE says, they are a visual resume of some of the roads I've traveled. I earned them as an adult, and I'm still an adult, so I don't think it's a problem.

 

I believe the intent of that rule was for Boy Scouts not to wear Cub Scout ranks, adults not to wear youth patches, etc.

[ScoutNut]

"I personally believe that the better example is to wear only the adult religious emblem award/knot when it is earned."

 

Just an FYI - While, I believe, a few of the adult religious emblems are indeed earned in some way, the majority of them are not EARNED. At least not by completing a given set of requirements.

 

Most adult religious emblems are AWARDED by a committee of either the local, regional, or national branch of the religious organization, to adults who have supported the organization's religious emblem program.

 

 

 

"What is it really saying? "I'm proud I got to a 10-year-old's understanding of my faith?""

 

Wearing the youth knot as an adult says to me that they are proud of taking the time, & making the effort, as a youth, to learn more about their faith, & how it affected them. In some cases, earning these emblems solidified a lifelong commitment to their faith.

 

They earned it, they are allowed to wear it. Why ridicule them for it?

 

(This message has been edited by ScoutNut)

[Beavah]

Yah, der's no question that the insignia guide agrees with you, ScoutNut. The youth religious award knot is clearly permitted on the adult uniform, I suspect for the reasons you mention (just like the program capstone awards - AOL, Eagle, QM, Silver).

 

Da rest is just my personal opinion. I'd at least want to see the youth knot worn only if the person earned it for the highest level program they participated in as a youth. Wearing the knot for a cub level religious award if you spent seven years in Boy Scouts and didn't earn the scout-level award just seems cheap.

 

As far as the resume thing goes, in the real world nobody walks around with their resume on their chest. Indeed, anybody who walks up to you and starts spouting their resume would be considered "boorish," eh? A resume is something you keep and pull out when needed... like a patch blanket or vest.

 

I think the insignia guide intent is pretty clear: wear only the patches/awards that correspond to your current position, to keep your uniform neat and uncluttered. That way people can clearly see your "resume" for the position you are serving in. The only exceptions are the youth capstone & religious awards.

 

To find out if a SM once spent 8 years in service to the cub scout program, you ask them over a cup of coffee, eh?

 

[OldGreyEagle]

All I can say is, this is knot fun...

 

I understand about the Beavah's resume comment, as most of us don't walk around with a resume on our bodies, however, one segment of the population most definitely does. Rank insginia, battle ribbons, the odd stripe on the sleeve or oak cluster on the collar all tell something about military personnel, as does a collection of knots.

 

However, there is such a thing as Boy Scouts are to be non-military. Where dos that leave us?

[scoutldr]

I think the history of the knots can be traced back to the military ribbons that B-P wore on his scout uniform. Indeed, the wearing of military ribbons on the scout uniform by veterans was at one time encouraged and allowed. This seems to be a European thing...often you see old British and Russian veterans still wearing their battle decorations on their civilian coats. God bless 'em. I once was in a hotel when a political dinner was being held, and on more than one civilian tux I saw miniature military medals being worn.

 

Square knots were introduced as an alternative to military-looking ribbons. The original Eagle award has an accompanying r/w/b ribbon bar. I wear 7 square knots, including AOL, God and Country, Eagle, Cub Scouter, Cubmaster, Scouter Training, and District Award of Merit. As long as I earned them fair and square, I don't see where it's anyone else's business. Nor would I criticize anyone else for what they choose to wear or not wear.

[Eamonn]

Can Adult Scouters wear medals earned as Scout?

As ever we have what is in the book?? And what people choose to do.

Does anyone remember the TV show Branded, I think it was with Chuck Connors?

At the start of each episode they tore the patches off his uniform.

Well that is never going to happen.

We can all read the rules or guide. We can interpret it as we see fit. We can also make a choice, opting to follow it or ignore it.

What someone might think is really cool, I might think is kind of silly. Of course in my effort to be "Kind" unless asked I keep my opinions to myself.

I've seen adults show up for Wood Badge wearing jeans and red jackets covered in every patch from every event they have ever attended. Sure we send out a letter requesting that they wear full and correct uniform. But once they arrived we were just happy they were there.

As for the B&G thing?

I even as a Cubmaster seen it more of a Birthday Party than a formal Scouting occasion. But that is just my take on it.

I know I have way too many knots!! In fact I have been sitting here trying to count how many!! I think it's about 16 or 18.

I have a lot of uniform shirts. Some have none of the knots on. Some have a few and I think two have 15 on. These are the shirts I wore to the Jambo.

I was really saddened that a James E. West knot seemed to open a lot of doors at the Jambo. But it did and I'll admit that I took full advantage of it!!

I also have to admit that when traveling I don't like looking like an overgrown Boy Scout!!

I don't like being seen in public wearing long socks, shorts, neckerchief and a lot of large patches.

I think, but I will have to check, that on the Sea Scout uniform an adult can only wear a max of six knots. I think that I'm going to wait till I've completed Sea Badge before I add any.

The other night at our Council Volunteer Recognition Dinner. I knowingly and on purpose broke the rules. Sea Scouter's in Sea Scout uniform are not supposed to wear Wood Badge beads. Our Sea Scouts were involved in the dinner, so I wore a Sea Scout uniform, but there was a Wood Badge being presented, so I choose to do a little tweak of my own.

I'm all for correct and proper uniforming.

But I really think at the end of the day we shouldn't get hung up on it.

I know Scouter's who wear the full uniform, with knots up to their shoulder seam, who are not good at anything. I know people who are new to Scouting who bring a understanding and know how to the program who wear the shirt and jeans. I don't know why they do this? But I don't feel it's any of my business to ask.

Eamonn.