Complete Uniform

[GopherJudy]

My 3 cents worth (inflation!) I think it's important that the complete uniform be worn, especially in Boy Scouts. When my son Mark joined Cub Scouts as a Bear in Sept 2002, I had asked the CM about how much it would cost between uniform & activities & explained as a single mom (husband deceased in April 1997) that money was a little tight. He explained that the registration fees include the subscription to Boys Life, the handbook & the neckerchief & slide at graduation. He told me that I didn't have to get the pants & that Mark can wear clean jeans without holes in them. Also, if I had money problems & he couldn't attend something, he would take care of it. I took Mark to get his shirt, hat, neckerchief, slide, etc. & I wound up buying the pants because it looks good having the whole uniform. I bought the shirt bigger & the pants bigger so they would last longer. He would wear the pants to his den meetings but he was the only one in his den to wear the pants & he asked me if he could wear his jeans to the den meetings instead. I said yes but he had to wear the pants to Pack Night, Blue & Gold Dinner, march in the Memorial Day Parade & to Pack Graduation. When he graduated to Webelos I & had his 1st den meeting the DL said that the boys had to wear the tan shirt & olive green pants, we had 3 graduate from Bears & 4 new boys as Webelos I's so it wasn't like 7 boys were buying a 2nd uniform. I bought Mark a shirt that was bigger & the same with the pants. My mom hemmed them & he had like a 6-7 inch hem in his pants, I had bought him a size 12 pants! He's grown & I've lengthened his pants & I have to lengthen them again. I'm sure he'll have outgrown the pants by the time he starts 6th grade in Sept, which means I've gotten 2 years out of the pants! His shirt will last another year I think!

 

What I'm getting at is that you can buy the clothes a little bigger & then they'll "grow" into them & they'll have them longer than if you bought the "correct" size! I didn't really have the money to buy the Cub Scout pants but I thought it was important for Mark to wear them. Yes, I know he didn't wear them to all of the den meetings because he wanted to "fit in" & there were times that they were doing very messy activities & were told not to wear their uniform but to wear old clothes so that if they got paint or anything else on them it wouldn't matter.

 

I did the same with my daughter's Brownie vest when she joined in 1st grade! I bought her a large, it was too big but it fits her perfect when she started 3rd grade in Sept. I remember seeing some of the 3rd graders last year & they had on such a small vest it looked ridiculous! Sure it fit them fine in 1st grade but not in 3rd!

 

In Mark's Troop, he crossed over to Boy Scouts in March, I believe that most of the boys where the complete uniform. Some of the older boys don't, there was a leader change & the new SM took over in Sept & he's still turning things around & getting the boys that were there several years before he became SM back on track (into patrols, being boy run, uniforms, etc.). I know that some of the older boys do come right from a sports activity from school & don't really have a chance to change because they're rushed.

 

As I said, I think it's important to have the whole uniform & for new scouts, give them a month to have the complete uniform. They might not have the money at first and/or the Scout Store might be out of stock on the size shirt, pants, belt, had or socks that is needed.

 

I hope that I haven't bored anyone to death with this or rambled aimlessly!

 

Judy

[Torveaux]

Not to get too far off topic here, Judy, but where does the DL get off requiring a specific uniform. Webelos can wear either the blue or the tan shirt. The DL does not really get to choose (except for his own son).

 

 

[GopherJudy]

Torveaux,

 

I would say the DL said to have the tan/olive green uniform because then they'd have it already for Boy Scouts! As I stated, there were 4 new boys who didn't have the blue uniform so I guess instead of having them buy the blue uniform & then have to buy the tan/olive green one a year & a half later for Boy Scouts it was easier for everyone to be in the same colors - tan & olive green! That's only my guess! I would have had to buy Mark new pants if they continued with the blue uniform as his legs grew faster than his arms, he had outgrown the pants by graduation pack night!

 

Judy

[Kahuna]

Bob White,

 

I stand corrected. I don't have a current manuel, mine is the previous version, which doesn't discuss that. There was a recent flurry of messages on the Sea Scout listserve, which I reviewed and you are correct about six knots. I still don't see why they care. I certainly feel that the white or blue Sea Scout uniform looks better with less on it than more, but I didn't feel they needed to institutionalize it.

 

I think the Wood Badge bead thing is due to a conscious effort to separate "sea" Scouts and "dirt" Scouts. I doubt that it will change. Sea Scouting, of course, has it's own version, Seabadge, and Sea Scouters can wear the Powderhorn insignia as Venture leaders. There's a guy in Florida who has been a Skipper forever and runs a Sea Scout Regatta every year who wears his beads on a white lanyard, which I think is pretty funny. Not legal, of course, but funny.

[Torveaux]

I understand the rationale for a new scout or someone like your son that had outgrown his uniform, but there is no requirement for all of the boys in the same den to make the same choice. My son will remain in his blue shirt until he outgrows it or crosses over.

 

Your situation underlies one of the reasons that having a rigid uniform pant policy makes no sense. Our boys all wear the same blue pants that they wear for school. Those Webelos who wear the tan shirt still wear the blue pants. Frankly, I think it looks better and helps to keep the Webelos apart from the Boy Scouts.

[GopherJudy]

Torveaux,

 

Question regarding the pants your son & the boys in his den wear to school. Are they in a private school & wear their school uniform pants (which I assume would look similar to blue scout pants) to den meetings or do they all just wear the same jeans?

 

I think the Webelos that were a year ahead of Mark's den some wore the tan & some wore the blue & I don't think any of them had the pants, they just wore their jeans. The Webelos I's now I believe all the boys wear the blue shirts & jeans, none of them wear the pants. I don't know if any of them are near outgrowing their blue shirt & are going to go to the tan shirt. I guess it all depends on the DL.

 

Doesn't the Webelos neckerchief & hat & the blue loops on the tan shirt set them apart from the Boy Scouts?

 

Everyone has their own opinion on this & that's fine. Take care!

 

Judy

 

 

[OzarksOsage]

The phrase "partial uniform" is an oxymoron. Either a Scout(er) is in uniform, meaning the entire uniform, or he is not. IMHO, it's better to not wear any uniform parts at all than to wear some without the others. Growing up in rural Missouri, there was never a question about "how much" of the uniform to wear. We wore it all. Even at summer camp, no one without the full uniform got into the dining hall for the evening meal. But, it wasn't a big deal--we were Scouts, proud to wear our uniforms. If a Scout came from a family that felt they couldn't afford the uniform, (or at least couldn't afford it right away) they would be discreetly directed to the uniform bank. Or the Scout (who is thrifty! now there's a concept) would save his money to buy his uniform with his own money. Now that I'm a Scouter, living in a fairly well-to-do suburb of a major midwestern city, I see all sorts of combinations of "uniforms." Affording the uniform, for the most part, is not an issue. Folks will even make the effort to obtain "Scout-like" pants or shorts, but have some kind of block to being fully "official." I try to keep it simple. Scouts and Scouters should be uniformed, or not uniformed. "Partial uniform" is not an option.

[Prairie_Scouter]

IMHO, I'd rather have them wear as much of the uniform as I can get them to wear, and use that as a position to encourage them to wear more of the uniform. Giving them an ultimatum to either wear the whole thing or nothing, well, I can be pretty sure what a typical teenager is going to choose

 

[Bob White]

And if the BSA uniform policies were left to the individual leader to determine then Prairie Scouter would be coorect...but they are not.

 

If he were to look in the Cub Scout Leader Book on page 12-11 he would see these words in the first paragraph..."The entire uniform should be worn or not at all.

 

 

Cub Scouts from packs where complete uniforms are promoted, encouraged and rewarded will already be in a complete uniform when they arrive in the troop.

 

BW

 

 

[Prairie_Scouter]

Don't get me wrong, Bob. I'm not against wearing the whole uniform. I've read the leader guides, and have no problem with them at all in regards to uniforms. All I'm saying is that as a matter of practice, if you're trying to get Scouts to wear the whole uniform, and your Pack and Troop have a history of not wearing the whole uniform, I'd rather start from a position of "partial compliance"(and yes, I realize that "partial compliance" can be seen just as "non-compliance", but nonetheless....) and work up from there, rather than telling the Scouts not to wear anything of the uniform unless they're going to wear all of it.

[Centreville Scout]

My troop requires complete uniform, but few people follow it. We have an occasional suprise uniform inspection.

ANY scout without complete uniform at a BOR or SM conference is turned away.

We have a out grown uniform bin for new scouts.

[evmori]

ANY scout without complete uniform at a BOR or SM conference is turned away.

 

By doing this you are adding to the requirements which isn't allowed. I agree Scouts should be in uniform for all SM Conferences & BOR's but it can't be made a requirement.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[BrentAllen]

Ed,

Requiring a uniform for certain events is not adding additional requirements. The policy states "A boy is not required to have a uniform in order to be a Boy Scout." Being a Boy Scout, at the simplest level, is attending Troop meetings, nothing more. A boy could join a Troop and never advance, never attend a campout, never attend summer camp or any other activity, and they are still a Boy Scout. The policy does not state a uniform cannot be required for some activities. It only states a uniform is not required to be a Boy Scout.

Here is another example for you. The BSA does not require a Scout to own a backpack and a sleeping bag. Can the Troop require the Scout to obtain a backpack and a sleeping bag to go on an overnight hike? The concept is simple - for some additional activities, there will be additional requirements.

Prairie - I inherited a Pack just like yours. The "policy" was for waist-up uniforms. I'm sure that is what you tell every new Cub Scout who joins. The day you start telling them the Pack is following BSA policy - full uniforms - is the day you see the change. You are the leader. They are going to follow the attitude, direction and expectations set by the leader. I know - I've been there, done that.

(This message has been edited by BrentAllen)

[stlscouter]

BrenAllen et al-

 

I am the Eagle Board Chair for our district and yes we DO require a scout to be in complete uniform because it is an ouward sign that fulfills a part of the "Scout Spirit" requirement.

 

Yes, we have turned boys away, usually with the aside "when so and so is done with his review why don't you ask to borrow his pants?"

 

Now, about the shoes...

[evmori]

Someone wanna show me where it states in a BSA publication that an Eagle candidate must wear his uniform for his Eagle BOR? I don't think you will find it. And if Scouts are being turned away because they are not in uniform, then that is adding to the requirements which is prohibited.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10