Complete Uniform

[schleining]

So the question is: How many Troops require complete uniforms?

Those that do, how do you do it? IE. Funding? Timeline on when it is required? Parent reaction?

Those that do not, what do you wear? Do you require "Like Pants"?

And the follow up.... Neckerchiefs... yes, worn..or No, not worn?

 

Your Thoughts please.

 

Thanks

 

Jerry

Scoutmaster

[Prairie_Scouter]

Both our Pack and Troop require the uniform "from the waist up", that is, we don't require the uniform pants, although we do want neat and clean pants or jeans, that is, no sweats, running pants, etc. Dockers and jeans are ok.

 

Funding is up to the individual families.

 

Regards timing....For new Scouts, we don't have a hard and fast rule. Usually the Cub Scouts are excited to have the uniform on. We very seldom have a new Scout who doesn't have the uniform for the 1st meeting. For those that don't, we remind them regularly. Usually not a problem in the Pack; in Boy Scouts, we have a couple who I think are making a statement by not wearing their uniforms to troop meetings. I remind them regularly, but I'm not going to turn them away.

 

The parents, especially in Cub Scouts, are happy or relieved that they don't have to spend the extra money for a variety of reasons.

 

Neckerchiefs, suggested for all Scout activities; mandatory for Court of Honor, Pack Night, more "formal" events. In Boy Scouts, we do an inspection at every meeting for which they receive points for having components of the uniform on, which are worth extra treats at summer camp. It provides some incentive.

[John-in-KC]

As a Committee Chair, I advocate the Scout uniform. I set an example. I wear it to Troop meetings most of the time (sometimes I'm busting butt to get home from work, and all I can grab are my Mic-O-Say claw and OA arrow necklaces).

 

I use the uniforming METHOD as part of my Boards of Review. Start with simple stuff: Patrol patch, Council CSP, numbers, neckerchief and slide for a new Scout.

 

More at Tenderfoot, more at Second...

 

At first I expect clean, neat and right on the shirt. I'm advocating Scout pants/shorts, but I insist on clean, neat, and fitting pants first. "Butt cracks" don't cut it.

 

I've adjourned Boards of Review if a candidate for Star did not have his Merit Badge sash, so he can tell us about what he's earned and why he values/devalues it. Note I said: Adjourn the BOR. The Scout comes back when he's ready.

 

I've adjourned a Board of Review for a Life Scout who didn't have his OA lodge flap on. Does he not value the accolade of his peers?

 

My District guests, to a man and woman, made the four Eagle BORs I sit very easy: They simply ask the young man if he's not proud of Scouting if his uniform is neither complete nor right. That happened once. The other young men got the message.

 

YIS

 

Post Scriptum: I'm very fortunate. Several of the young men in my Troop and Crew have the self-confidence to wear Scouting, OA, and Mic-o-Say shirts to school. When I ask these men to be uniformed, they turn out with quiet pride (This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[EagleInKY]

We expect the full and complete uniform. We start by setting the example as adult leaders. Since most kids come in from Cubs with the tan shirt, we ask that they purchase the shorts now (within the first month or so) and then purchase the long pants in the fall. We have started a uniform closet, so we'll be building up our supplies over time. We encourage them to check ebay and thrift stores if they don't want to buy new. The troop provides troop numerals, patrol patches and neckerchiefs.

[Bob White]

Requiring the uniform is not what the "uniform method" is about, nor is it required by BSA policy. The uniform is one method used to achieve the character and citizenship Aims.

 

Changing the uniform is a violation of the BSA policies "our Pack and Troop require the uniform "from the waist up", that is, we don't require the uniform pants" , and diminishes the growth that can be accomplished through the uniform method.

 

Getting the scouts and scouters into camplete uniform is a matter of leadership ability. If you only expect a partial uniform, then you will get a partial uniform. If you do not recognize and reward improvement in the uniform wear, as it happens, then changes will level-off or backslide.

 

If you do not set the example, then the scouts will not follow.

 

If you complain about the cost, the color, the fit, the style, then do not expect others to wear it.

 

How do you get scouts to do anything? Teach, test, review, reward.

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[schleining]

Thanks everyone for your input.

 

I personally wear a complete uniform everytime I put the uniform on, I leave nothing out. I want the Troop to be in complete uniform and there really is no excuse, but I am afraid to say that my Troop is not in full uniform.

 

I like the idea of buying shorts when they come up from Webelos, that does not seem like a stretch.

 

Bob White- I appreciate your comments and you are absolutly right. The Uniform method is part of the program and to require less than complete is not doing the Scout or the program justice.

 

I have a hunch this is going to make it on my Wood Badge ticket.

 

Thanks Again all...

 

On the Neckerchiefs- Right now our Troop does not wear one at all. I am forcing the issue as I think it is an important part of Scouting. I am meeting some resistance from leaders that think I am just trying to accessorize to much. I also noticed at the last camporee that many Troops are not wearing a neckerchief. What is the general feeling in this group?

 

Jerry

[Bob White]

Requiring the uniform has nothing to do with the program.

 

Making artificial rules to replace leadership skills is not leadership.

 

The neckerchief is optional. If the youth PLC decides not to wear one then that's OK. But certainly it is not something an adult (or adults) should be deciding for the boys.

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[schleining]

Bob White-

I agree. Our PLC is split on the neckerchief issue. Yes I think it is a good idea and have let the PLC know this.

They will sort it out. Their biggest beef with the neckerchief is keeping it on, finding the slide that will hold it.

 

So far as the Uniform being part of the program. Got to disagree with you on this one. I think the uniform is a part of the program. It is a tool that makes all the boys equal, it is an outward demonstration of being part of the team. It require the Scout to take care of it and wear it properly, both of those help teach responability and accountability.

 

Now- there are other ways in which these are taught, but the uniform certainly helps. The Uniform is a Method and therefore is part of the Program.

 

Jerry

[FScouter]

"Uniform" is part of the program. "Requiring" is not a part of the program.

 

The neckerchief is optional to the troop. Individuals follow the decision of the troop.

[schleining]

Got it..Thanks

[Prairie_Scouter]

Somehow I knew when I answered a simple question about how different units enforce the wearing of the uniform, the answer just couldn't be accepted for what it was, a simple answer to a simple question.

 

So, yes, our uniform usage violates BSA policy. And yes, the members of this forum, who tend to be fairly strict in their views of BSA and its policies, won't approve of that. But, yes, there are plenty of units out there who also don't require some parts of the uniform. So, yeah, we're breaking the rules. We do the best we can, sometimes we compromise where there is a need. We feel that we don't compromise on issues of substance. There are those who feel that everything is an issue of substance. Our troop is truly boy run; we spend a good deal of time mentoring our junior leaders. Our SPL was recognized at a recent Klondike as the best SPL at the event. I think we're doing something right, even without the pants.

[Bob White]

Our responsibility is to promote the uniform, encourage the uniform, recognize and reward wearing the uniform, foster a sense of community by wearing the unifom, teach a lesson about grooming and self esteem, then you abdicate all those responsibilities when you change the uniform or lower your standards.

 

An adult leader does more harm by altering the uniform than a scout does by not having the entire uniform. You teach that the only laws that count are the laws that are personally convenient.

 

To rationalize doing the wrong thing because "But, yes, there are plenty of units out there who also don't require some parts of the uniform. So, yeah, we're breaking the rules." is a horrible trait for a "leader" to model to youth. 'I can do it wrong because they do it wrong' is an argument used by children and not by responsible adults.

 

Doing things right is seldom the easist way.

 

Neither skill, knowledge, or character is needed to do things wrong.

 

It's a matter of making the ethical choice. The same trait we are striving to teach the scouts, and yet we cannot teach it to the "leaders".

[kittle]

I am ashamed to say that I am not sure where my son's troop stands on the uniform issue. I can say that the pack I am a leader in is lucky to get boys to pack meetings with even a uniform shirt on. We had 2 show up to the pinewood derby in non-uniform. The parents don't see it as important, so it seems neither do the boys.

 

With that said, I want to add something. I am in the process of finding my son a pair of shorts and a pair of pants, at his request. He never asked for these as a Cub Scout, but as a Boy Scout he wants them. I told him that if I didn't find a pair soon, I would buy him a new pair before his first COH. It is just hard for me to pay $36 for a pair of pants.

 

My husband and I are leaders and not in full uniform, but will be eventually (we have 14 more years till our youngest son is out of scouts).

 

 

[Bob White]

Good for you kittle, and good for your son. He wants to wear the uniform because he is proud of the group he belongs to. And good for you for continuing to move towrd a full uniform. Whats important isn't that he is in complete uniform this minute, what is important is that he isn't stopping at his belt.

 

I have send you the rest on this message in a private message.

 

BW.

[orennoah]

"My" Troop proudly wears the full BSA uniform and uniform inspections are part of every meeting.

 

Adult leaders set the example, and as SM, I do the inspection of the other adult leaders, while the Patrol Leaders inspect their patrols.

 

The boys encourage the troop to wear the BSA (or Eagle) bolo, instead of the neckerchief, which is also acceptable.

 

We have a supply of outgrown (and abandoned) uniforms for boys whose families cannot afford the full uniform otherwise.

 

As to new Scouts, the SPL gives them a month or two to get their uniform together, depending upon the stock situation at the Council Trading Post, which is often out of items.

 

- Oren