Exploring vs. Venturing Uniform

[Miami_Chief]

I recently obtained an old green explorer uniform. Am I able to wear this as a Class A in my Venture Crew? The only diferences are that it says "Explorer" instead of "Venturing, BSA", it does not have shoulder epaulets, and features the old Exploring logo in the left pocket. Is there a certain policy on this?

[Bob White]

Just one uniform shirt for the entire crew? That will be cozy. Consider the meaning of the word "uniform", unless all your other crew members decide to wear the same thing you aren't really in uniform are you? Remember that the Crew has two uniform options not the individual member. The Crew can choose to wear the official Venturing uniform or the Crew can create their own.

 

 

BW

[ScoutNut]

I wouldn't think so. They are 2 different programs now, even though Explorer was originaly the BSA's co-ed older youth group.

 

IMO, it would be like wearing your Venturing uniform, in place of a Boy Scout uniform, for your BS Troop meetings.

 

But, I am sure there are others here who could tell you for certain.

[FScouter]

For certain, you all should vote on one uniform for the crew.

[John-in-KC]

Just remember,

 

Uniform IS NOT A METHOD OF VENTURING.

 

Your Crew may opt for any uniform that it chooses. You may also opt for no uniform whatsoever.

 

My sons' Crew has opted for: Green Venturing shirt with knots for Courts of Honor, Boards of Review (many are Life--->Eagle still) and certain business functions (recently a Crewman went to local City Council to present his views on an issue ... he wore a Class A uniform).

 

My sons' crew has also opted for a standard, year round uniform of:

- Locally purchased T-shirt.

- Blue jean, docker, or Columbia shorts in summer.

- Blue jeans in winter.

 

Did I say "Class A?" Yep, sure did. If it's good enough for my 300 series Council Director of Field Service and his 2 Program Directors, it's good enough for me.

[Bob White]

Besides the fact that his error agrees with yours, what other than his job title (which by the way, gives him no authority over what is right or wrong in uniforming) what makes him right and the BSA executive committee wrong?

[Torveaux]

Think of 'Class A' as short hand for the Field Uniform.

 

I expect that you use BSA rather than Boy Scouts of America on occasion. The term 'Class A' is not inherently bad. Most of us understand it, even if we have not served in the military.

 

 

[Bob White]

The problem is two-fold Torveaux.

 

First B.S.A. is obviously the initials of the Boy Scouts of America.

BSA actually means something and it is used by the Boy Scouts of America. "Class____ Uniform" is not used by the BSA and never has been.

 

Second, once you allow "Class A" you have to allow for Class B, Class C etc. And there is where the foolishness starts.

 

Ask 12 scouters what specifically makes for a "Class B" uniform and you will get 12 answers. Since the BSA does not define a Class B it becomes whatever the scout leader says it is, and thats just plain wrong.

Class B is a military term, what it describes in the military uniform is not what the BSA calls the activity uniform. They don't mean the same thing so why use the term?

 

 

 

[Eamonn]

Miami_Chief

Let us for a half a minute pretend that you had a contact that could supply the entire crew with the shirt you describe and guarantee that there would be a supply for future Crew members.

The Crew could vote on making this shirt the Crew uniform.

As far as I know you could do that.

But what message would you want your uniform to tell the people who see you wearing it?

I don't think the guy who delivers Pepsi is going to drive a truck with Coke painted on it.

The Crew that OJ joined and is no more opted to go with a green t-shirt with Crew 160 on it, and yes they were Crew 160. I suppose they could have opted for a Crew uniform that said Pack 666? But that would be silly.

Isn't wearing a shirt that tells the world that you are an Explorer when your not the same thing?

Eamonn

[Torveaux]

I see where you are coming from, Bob.

 

I don't think it automatically follows that Class A implies a Class B, etc.

 

When I see the term, 'Class A', as applied to uniforms of any sort, I take that to mean the more formal version of the uniform. The Scout uniform has a number of optional items. To me, when the 'Class A' term is applied, it means to wear the best combination of options that you own. I would be more inclined to wear a tie or neckerchief for those occasions, than I would for a more casual setting that does not specify a uniform.

 

I will admit that my choice of examples was not the best, but I am sure there are other informal abbreviations and such that are used in a matter of course that are not official BSA terms.

 

I guess what I am saying is that it is not a big deal to use such terms and getting bogged down in such trivia detracts from the salient points you usually deliver.

[FScouter]

"I guess what I am saying is that it is not a big deal to use such terms ..."

 

It does seem to be a big deal. People continue to use the term knowing it has no basis, and defend themselves when corrected. John-in-KC went out of his way to use the term and then thumb his nose about doing so.

 

So, why is it such a big deal that some people insist on perpetuating a silly practice?

[John-in-KC]

Well,

 

Maybe not thumbing my nose....

 

But certainly first sticking my tongue in my cheek, then sticking it outward and going Thhhhbbbbbbbbbbbttttt!!

 

One of my very best friends is a well seasoned Texan. He long ago taught me a most wonderful phrase:

 

"John, you're pole vaulting over mouse turds!"

 

If I am lucky, I see TWO men from Irving a year: One at Commissioner's College, and one at PTC, if I get to go.

 

I see my Council exec a little more often ... but still, he's in the yes, sir department. Heck, he's the head of a multi-million dollar non-profit.

 

I see my District Director, Senior DE, and DE at least monthly, and my District Commissioner more than that (amazing what happens when you're his physical arrangements man for roundtable, and your district roundtable needs space to grow from 250 up to 500 Scouters a month).

 

I see the Program Directors for our two reservations several times a year ... and I see one of the head rangers every workday.

 

My points are this:

 

Scouting is about FUN, even for us Scouters. If raising young men and women cannot be rewarding and fun, why do it?

 

We have lots of challenges to worry about: Leader selection, leader training, mentorship of our Scouts, raising the money so we don't leave a Scout behind, keeping the youth safe, ad infinitum... All of these are serious. We are preparing the next generation of American young men and women for life.

 

So, yes, I've decided: The difference between Field Uniform and Class A, Activity Uniform and Class B, definitely falls under "pole vaulting over mouse turds." My local professionals don't sweat it. They use the term in OFFICIAL Council materials. They use the term in their regular lives. Hence, I'm not going to sweat it anymore.

 

And besides, to quote my original post:

 

"Uniform IS NOT A METHOD OF VENTURING."

 

YIS

[FScouter]

Sorry, guess I hit a nerve.

[John-in-KC]

Not a nerve

 

Definitely something that had lain on my heart a while.

 

Raising the next generation to adulthood is THE essential task of a parent. Scouting, IMO, is the 2d best tool in the toolbox (Church and God being first).

 

We do here get waaay down in the weeds, and there are times where the arcana is just "over the top." It hits a point where using the Scouting tool can be a CHORE, not a JOY.

 

We only have so much energy. Field v A, for me, is no longer the best use of my energy. To me, it's the penultimate arcana of Scouting.

 

Fair?

 

Off to camp for commisisoner staff training. Back online Sunday late or Monday.

 

YIS