Moving at different speeds

[frankj]

I confess. My fingers paused over the keyboard before adding the word "danger" to my previous post. I put it in there anyway, to see if anyone would take the bait, so thank you for responding. I agree with you of course. No one would put these boys in danger knowingly. Going on a hike in a new area has to spur the imagination of 10 -16 year old. Think about when you were that age. They probably conjure up all kinds of things that could go wrong on the hike, from lightning strikes, to avalanches, to cougar attacks, with themselves applying their Scout skills, and coming out the hero. This is the "danger" I was referring to ... a perceived danger. I view each outing as an opportunity to educate the boys and for them to have fun. Others might put fun ahead of education -- thats fine with me. GPS? Fine. But as a backup for map and compass skills. Map and compass skills take a little bit of effort and practice. GPS is pushing buttons and getting answers. Maybe an analogy is being able to solve math problems with paper and pencil versus using a calculator. Response?

[Rooster7]

Perhaps I over reacted...To be truthful, I understood what you meant. The bait was just too tempting. Back on pointA cell phone just makes sense. Nothing is going to work all the time, but why eliminate a tool that can potential save lives.

[jmcquillan]

Off-topic, sorry...but...

 

Rooster. What is that technique you use to get the double post each time you post here?:-)

 

[Rooster7]

I wish I knew...It's not intentional. Every time I hit the "Submit Your Message" button, out it comes (the double post). Sorry...If you know what I'm doing wrong, I'm all ears. Thanks.

[eisely]

Those who have read the novel Catch 22 may remember what happened to the soldier in the hospital who saw everything twice. Let's hope that Rooster7 avoids that fate.

[WA_Scoutmaster]

Mike, I completely agree with your views on electronics. They do provide a false sense of security, turn into toys, and don't belong on the trail. I will carry a cell phone [if we are in range of coverage], (for emergencies only which means injury to a scout that requires medevac, for example), but that's it. One thing we promote in the troop quite heavily is the concept of teamwork. On our hike there's at least one adult in the lead and one at the back - the boys put the slowest hiker in front and use the "extra" time on the trail to identify plants, animal trails, cloud formations, etc. Although the destination is the prime objective, we are also out to learn and have fun.

[Tiny1pj]

While I agree that electronics should not be used as toys, I totally disagree about having them on the trail for emergency backup. I have had 3 high quality compasses fail (point inconsistantly). My experiences may be unique in that I handle over 100 compasses a year in my hunter education classes.

 

Add to the fact that with bad weather and poor visability, you may not be able to orient a map on the ground.

 

The GPS is a good way for the boys to validate their location AFTER they have determined it using the map and compass. However, just like everything, it has its limitations and difficulties, and these should be taken into account when it needs to be used.

 

I have known several people who have died because they were so sure of their own capabilities, only to be lost, or caught in a freak blizzard (we have a lot of them here).

 

We have so many guidelines of what we cannot do as scouts (Guide to safe scouting), why not take the minimal measure of having 2 items for the emergency - a GPS and cell phone. When used properly (emergency only), they will not take away from the experience of the outing, only add a tiny measure of added safety. I should not have to specify when used properly and within their limitations, however some of the arguments I have seen against taking them have been of that trivial nature.

 

By the way, where do you draw the line? I am probably going to be in a power wheelchair within the next 2-3 years. Will that be forbidden also, as it is powered, and very obviously an electrical device? This should be obvious, however I do know some that say a scout should not be on outings if he cannot walk and "carry his own weight".

 

Paul Johnson

[eisely]

I agree that GPS and cell phones are important safety backups, but they should be left in the pack until needed. Walkie talkies are similarly useful backups, but also are more like toys. I would prefer to rely on non-electronic means of getting around and communicating, but I would be derelict if I did not avail myself of such safety tools.

 

Speaking of electrical things, sorry to hear about the wheel chair Paul. Myself, I am going in for eye surgery in July so I can once again read my map and my compass.

 

There was an interesting piece in the Wall Street Journal today about golf carts being adapted for more rugged outdoor use. I was intrigued to read about a pheasant ranch in Kansas that makes it possible for wheel chair bound people to hunt using this electrical tool. Clearly there is no a priori reason to reject such tools if they help people do useful and enjoyable things.

 

There was a scoutmaster in our town who had no legs whatsoever, and did everything but the hiking. What an example for scouts!

[Tiny1pj]

I totally agree with eisley on keeping the emergancy electronics in the bottom of the back, planning to NEVER take them out, except as I mentioned with the GPS to help the boys to learn how it is an adjunct to the compass and map.

 

Thank you eisley for your compliment. My reason for looking at having to go to a power chair is multifold. I lost my left leg to a farm accident, and now I have diabetes. Even with treatment I have developed several severe complications, most notably neuropathy in all 4 limbs, and have lost most of the feeling in my foot.

 

Although only 40, I also have permanent nerve damage in my hands and arthritis in my back and shoulders that limits my strength.

 

Even so, I completed woodbadge in June, and completed my ticket 2 weeks ago.

 

Something that I do not think people realize is that I am just trying to be a good example, not "super scouter". I do not see myself as better than the rest, and am very embarrassed when told what an inspiration I am. I have just had to adapt around my impairments to do the things I enjoy.

 

God be with you in your surgery,

 

God bless,

 

Paul Johnson

[frankj]

TinyPJ: I have used Silva Ranger compasses for 25 years. Never had any problems with them. They cost about 40 - 45 dollars. What type of compasses were the ones that failed to point consistently?