If the uniform was from Bangladesh and cheaper,?

[Eamonn]

In the "Real World" I am a victim of advertising. I feel sure that Heinz is the better ketchup, Kellogg's makes the corn flakes and the list goes on.

I rode up to the last Area meeting with the Area President. I parked my Ford Explorer in his drive way and we took his Honda Accord.It is a nice car, he has all the extras, well a lot of them!! He used to drive a Jeep Grand Cherokee. I was no sooner in the car, when he started telling me what a wonderful car it was.( I remember him saying the same thing about the Jeep) Then almost as an apology he added how it was made in the USA. I'm not sure but I think most of my Ford comes from Mexico and Canada?

I own a pair of Lee jeans that were assembled in Scotland. I can't help thinking that the people who assembled my jeans were once kilt makers.

Wal-Mart has been getting a lot of bad press because of the amount of stuff they are importing from China. Still sales for the last quarter were up by 4%.

I sure as heck don't want to buy a Boy Scout uniform and then find out that it was assembled by seven year olds working in a sweat shop.

I seen the effect of a mill closure in Slane county Meath, Ireland. The Mill closed in 1994. At that time it was the only surviving factory in Ireland which manufactured from raw cotton to finished sheeting. A uncle of mine had worked there since the day he left school at 14.

I think that I would feel bad knowing that a community, maybe not that far away was suffering because the BSA had taken their business to Bangladesh.

Still the way things are now very few of the Scouts I see are wearing the full uniform, most are wearing blue jeans. I hope to heck that the good people of Scotland don't all take up assembling blue jeans and forget how to make a good single malt!! Uniforms from Bangladesh might be OK - But they don't know very much about mastering the malt!!

Eamonn

[acco40]

If the quality (and environmental laws, labor laws, etc.) are on par, I could care less where my uniform was made. Isn't Scouting a world wide organization?Why should the BSA supply division have one supplier anyway? Competition, within reason, is good.

[scoutldr]

Ahh, but that's why companies are taking their mfg business overseas. No EPA, No OSHA, no minimum wage laws, no labor unions demanding more benefits. That equates to more profit for the stockholders.

[nldscout]

Can anyone tell me who makes the uniforms? There is no company name anywhere on my shirts or pants.

[FScouter]

"That equates to more profit for the stockholders."

 

Not really. Companies go overseas to stay competitive. There costs are lower, but their selling price is lower too. Profit is the same.

 

Company A makes a shirt here, sells it for $20 and makes a profit. Company B imports a shirt from overthere, sells it for $16 and makes a profit. Company A loses sales, then goes overthere for a lower cost, then sells here for $16. Now Company A is competitive again. The profit is the same.

[SemperParatus]

Now that has to be the most overly simplistic way of looking at business I have ever heard of. I think your contention that profit margins are static and price elasticity does not exist flies in the face of basic Keynesian economic theory.

[FScouter]

Do better in 2 sentences. The point is that "more profits" is NOT the reason to go overseas, and doing so does NOT ensure more profits.

[Torveaux]

I don't know that I would use Keynesian economic models to win an argument, but to each his own.

 

I think cost is only one factor in the problems with the uniform.

 

As acco said 'Scouting is a global organization', not merely a US entity. I think you could offer choices. If someone is concerned about buying 'American', they can pay the associated upcharge.

 

I would argue that one of the reasons it makes sense for a company to operate overseas is that some of the US laws do not really do anything to help the environment or labor other than to make lawmakers and activists feel like they are 'doing' something.

 

Do the people who get hung up on the origins of vehicles realize that Chrysler is German company?

[DadNow_EagleThen]

Keynesian economic theory is about macroeconomics; it's not really relevant here. The behavior of firms is microeconomics.

 

Not to belabor the point, but FScouter is right. To put it another way, companies try to maximize profits, not simply raise them. "Maximize" doesn't mean they go up; it often means they go down. I spent the last 12 years in IT, and I can assure you that profits can go down, even when you try real hard to make them as high as possible. Same thing for the textile industry. Moving all production offshore may be necessary just to keep profits level and keep the stock price from falling; it's not necessarily a way for the rich capitalists to get richer, it might be the only way they can keep their jobs.

 

Not to say that they deserve more sympathy than the laid-off factory workers.

 

But now we're heading off topic...

 

MF

 

 

[dsteele]

Ask any merit badge counselor for American Labor or union member why it's important that the BSA uniform be made by American Labor in the good old USA.

 

I'd watch out for the crow bar if you ask in the incorrect way.

 

Unc.

[GopherJudy]

Eamonn, I agree, I would hate to see the BSA uniforms being made in a foreign country. I always try to find merchandise Made In America but unfortunately (sp?) it's not always easy. I think it's a shame that businesses manufacture things in foreign countries & it's more of a shame when they outsource their customer service departments, etc. to foreign countries! We should be proud if something is "Made In America"!

 

On another note, my son's den wears the whole Webelos tan uniform! When we've gone to visit Boy Scout troops I believe all of the Scouts had on Boy Scout pants! I know the Cub Scouts in our pack wear blue jeans, I did buy the Blue Cub pants for Mark & he did wear them! I like the whole uniform look!

 

Judy

[John-in-KC]

Eammon,

 

 

Three truisms...

 

Quality will sell, even at a price.

 

Garbage stinks, no matter how you try to cover up the smell.

 

We need to keep the OUTING in SCOUTING.

 

The current field uniform is is very similar to the old Army Tan uniform in the late 1970s. It was a great uniform for the office. It was also a stupid uniform for field operations.

 

The current Scouting field uniform is great for being in a properly heated or cooled building. It is not acceptable for field wear, for many reasons ... not the least of which is it is inefficient both at retaining heat and wicking away moisture.

 

It's not the price, it's not the made onshore/offshore issue.

 

It's the quality of the items. FIT and FINISH matter.

 

Jeans work because they "wear like iron." They also work because folks like Sears, Roebuck put a wear guarantee on their items: "If you wear these out before you outgrow them, we'll replace them for free."

 

Can you even imagine Supply Division, Inc putting that kind of guarantee on the table? I got to ask a Supply Division Scout Shop manager about "Satisfaction guaranteed" ... it does not cover fair wear and tear.

 

My two cents.

[torribug]

I had a very interesting revelation this past week regarding BSA uniforms. My oldest son just graduated from Marine Corps boot camp. I noticed that the Boy Scout uniform, from the rear at least, looks suspiciously like my oldest son's Marine Corps class C. Tan button-down shirt and green trousers (although Marine trousers don't have extra pockets). I had him (oldest) look at the tag to see where the shirt was manufactured, but it didn't say "Manufactured in ________". All it said was DSCP, which is Division Supply Center Philadelphia. I am interested in knowing if the military (hopefully!) gets their stuff from US manufacturers.

 

I priced the Marine Corps shirt, and they are only $16.20 - half of what a BSA shirt costs. I don't think that the addition of epaulet holders, a flag patch, and a BSA strip would jack the cost up by 100%.

[John-in-KC]

torribug,

 

Title 10, United States Code is statute law for the Armed Forces.

 

Believe it or not, it's AGAINST FEDERAL LAW to wear a component of the Armed Forces uniform...

 

TITLE 10 > Subtitle A > PART II > CHAPTER 45 > 771

 

771. Unauthorized wearing prohibited

 

 

Except as otherwise provided by law, no person except a member of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps, as the case may be, may wear

(1) the uniform, or a distinctive part of the uniform, of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps; or

(2) a uniform any part of which is similar to a distinctive part of the uniform of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps.

http://assembler.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode10/usc_sec_10_00000771----000-.html

 

In fact, under Title 10 is the BSA's authority to have a distinctive uniform:

TITLE 10 > Subtitle A > PART II > CHAPTER 45 > 772

 

772. When wearing by persons not on active duty authorized

 

(j) A person in any of the following categories may wear the uniform prescribed for that category:

(1) Members of the Boy Scouts of America.

(2) Members of any other organization designated by the Secretary of a military department.

http://assembler.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode10/usc_sec_10_00000772----000-.html

 

Hope this helps

 

YIS

[torribug]

Oh, I wasn't saying that we should use the Marine Corps shirts for BSA uniform shirts - I was just showing that BSA is providing pretty much the same thing for double the cost.

 

I still don't know if the gov't is getting the uniforms from domestic sources. If they are getting them from overseas, of course they're going to be cheaper. I'll follow up on this when I learn more. I would rather pay an extra $16 for a BSA shirt that will last for three more years if it is made in the USA vs. overseas.