Making the uniform choice

[FScouter]

When I need new clothes I go to the store. I get to walk up and down the aisles and pick through hundreds and hundreds of styles, fabrics, and colors. Then I pick what most tickles my fancy. I love it, because I picked it out myself. And if later I decide I dont like it so much, it gets pushed to the back of the closet and I go buy something else. I wear what I like, and Im in total control of what I wear.

 

With the uniform, its different. Joe Scouter gets no choice. There is only one store. There is never a sale. Its not my clothes. Its somebody elses choice, somebody elses clothes. Joe has no control. He is told when and where and how he must wear these clothes. He doesnt like that. He is an independent thinker. He hasnt been dressed by anyone since he was 6 years old. He thinks to himself They cant do this to me! I wont put up with this nonsense.

 

He decides to hate the Boy Scout uniform. He wears only part of it. He makes substitutions. He looks for reasons to not wear it. He complains about it.

 

What is the one real objection? Its not the fit, the material, the color, or the cost. Its not the style, the patches, or the durability. It is the idea that someone else has dictated what the uniform shall be. There is only one rack to choose from. The underlying objection is the loss of control, the loss of choice.

 

I would only hope that as responsible adult leaders we could rise above personal objections to dressing in the Boy Scout uniform. I would hope we could all be proud to wear it, and support the organization that we belong to. It is really too much to ask to wear the uniform of our organization? Can we not rise above and make the right choice?

 

[evmori]

FScouter,

No it isn't too much to ask that the uniform be worn correctly. I love the uniform! To me it is very comfortable. But until the BSA makes it mandatory to own a uniform to be a member, this will always be a problem.

 

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Torveaux]

Interesting theory.

 

I think that may be the case for a few people, but the fact remains that the uniform (specifically the pants) have not been practical for many years (since the 80s, I believe).

 

I have no problem paying for pants that are useful and have value. It is one thing to hold the concept of wearing a uniform dear. I certainly do. However, the particulars of this uniform make it impossible to get behind.

 

Fix the pants issue (style, cut, color, cost) and you will solve 75% of the issues most people have with the uniform. Cost will always be an issue for some, but value is more important.

[EagleInKY]

FS - Interesting concept. I wonder it would work. Propose it to Dallas, maybe they'll implement it by our second centinial!

[Hunt]

"What is the one real objection? Its not the fit, the material, the color, or the cost. Its not the style, the patches, or the durability. It is the idea that someone else has dictated what the uniform shall be. There is only one rack to choose from. The underlying objection is the loss of control, the loss of choice."

 

I can't help feeling a bit offended that you state what the "one real objection" is when so many people have said that their objection is something else. Perhaps you think we're deluding ourselves--I assume you don't think we're being untruthful.

Look, if boys (and adults) were concerned primarily about lack of choice and individuality, you would see more resistance to the scout shirt. I don't see this. What I see is lots of people--including me--who really don't like the current pants. Personally, I don't like the cheesy fabric, and others don't like the cut. It's certainly not the color--as FScouter has observed, scouts will often willingly wear other pants that have a very similar color. They aren't doing this to assert their individuality.

I also resent the suggestion that we need to "rise above" and "make the right choice" to wear the uniform--many of us DO wear the uniform. I wear--and I still don't like the pants. Why can't BSA make the "right choice" and give us some decent pants?

[BPwannabe@137]

I haven't been around for a few months and I check the topics to find my favorite topic-uniforms!

 

I agree with all that the pants are the biggest problem. Personally, I prefer straight leg trousers with no pockets. Have several in my collection from the 1950-current and like them all. Guess I don;t have much of a figure. I must admit I do own a pair of the new venture pants and love them. Problem is the price. Design venture pants in dark green for scouts but cut the price in half and that might be an incentive for complete uniforms.

 

However, there are those that don;t want to be told what to do. They don't like to be part of a "team" for fear of losing their individuality. Case in point: I asked all the leaders in my pack to be in complete uniform. Male leaders wear required to wear offical trousers. They complained about the price. So I went out and found Target and Kohls both sold olive green dockers, baggy yet dressy and looked like the official pants for 11.99. (Two coffees from Starbucks?) No one bought them. They then complained that they did not like the dockers style but wanted to wear jeans. I then offered to them forest green uniform jeans from my job at 15.99 a pair. Again no takers. Finally one of the dads just said that they don;t want to look like scouts, and thats why they are wearing blue jeans. Don;t want to look like scouts?? Then why bother

 

I would like to see the BSA redesign the pants, but I hope they don't throw the baby out with the bath water, and go to fast food style uniforms.

 

 

[FScouter]

Hunt, and others. No intention to offend.

 

My personal opinion is that uniform objectors don't like being told to wear specific uniform clothes. They don't believe their personal objection is a valid enough reason to not wear. So they make up a myriad of other excuses to not wear. As if a valid argument might be:

If the price is too high, I don't have to wear it.

If the quality is bad, I don't have to wear it.

If the fit is bad, I don't have to ...

If whatever I don't like, I don't have to ...

 

Then come the testimonials about price, fit, fabric, etc. etc. If enough other objectors agree with them, they feel justified.

 

"Finally one of the dads just said that they don't want to look like scouts, and thats why they are wearing blue jeans."

 

At least the dad had guts enough to state his real reason.

 

Bottom line for me is there is no excuse at all for not wearing the Boy Scout uniform. Just my personal opinion with no intention to offend.

[dsteele]

I wear the official uniform -- shirt, pants, and socks.

 

The pants I wear cost a bit more than the off the rack pants, but they are 100% official. I wear either the 100% cotton or the poly/wool uniform pants.

 

I wear them because:

1) there is no elastic in the waist.

2) there are no outside pockets

3) the fabric is of a much higher quality

4) there are double-welt pockets on the back.

5) they are cut the same as dress pants.

 

Unc.

[nldscout]

Maybe I am wierd, because I like the BSA pants. I wear them all the time with my uniform. When they get a little raggedly I wear them to camp and places like that.

 

I agree most of the youth don't like them, particulaly the shorts.

 

As for the BSA uniform not being mandatory, it is in our troop. No uniform, no meeting. Sorry if you don't like our rule, but its what we wanted and the parents agreed and understand. If you was on the football teamand showed up without your uniform, you would sit on the bench all day.

[kraut-60]

A uniform is a uniform. I think this is the point many folk dont get. Any uniform whether,law enforcement,military,EMT,or Boy Scout is designed to be in a style unlike that of current clothing that are NOT designed as uniforms. What a shame that some folks simply dont handle the idea of uniforms very well. I agree with Fscout and BP on this one, and EV too. The uniform has never been or will be a hindrance to this movement, I see the real hindrance to be leaders who cannot or will not put aside vanity or a misplaced sense of fashion.

[John-in-KC]

My two cents...

 

Uniforming, as a concept and a method, applies not only to Scouting, but to athletics, marching bands, police, and the Armed Forces.

 

Look at youth playing baseball, soccer or football (three of Scoutings competitors as youth-serving programs). No problems with uniforms there. Why? THE UNIFORMS SUPPORT THE PRIMARY PURPOSE OF THE PROGRAM!!!

 

When I (am now or was then) on active duty in the military, uniforms made my clothing choice easy, every day

 

BSA instills timeless values through an outdoor program. Yet, how many of us would wear the field uniform as a PRIMARY element of a layering system in winter?

 

Why do so many units, as local policy, discard BSA green trou for Levi Strauss??? Jeans wear like iron, and don't set youth and families back when they wear out.

 

Fabrics suitable for the outdoors...

 

Fit suitable for the outdoors...

 

Construction suitable for the outdoors...

 

My thoughts. Others will differ.

 

YIS(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[SemperParatus]

Maybe its just me. But ever since I was young, there was always this feeling I had as I slid into my scout pants and pulled on my uniform shirt that there was something special or different going on. It wasn't like changing into a super-hero costume or anything like that, but it definitely made me think that I was preparing myself for something special - even if it was just a weekly troop meeting. Even today, when I put on the uniform its not like putting on 'normal' clothes, which is done with so little thought. There is always that ever so slight pause to make sure that it is clean and neat, the patches are secure and a final once over in the mirror. Like I said, maybe its just me.

[molscouter]

"As for the BSA uniform not being mandatory, it is in our troop. No uniform, no meeting. Sorry if you don't like our rule, but its what we wanted and the parents agreed and understand. If you was on the football team and showed up without your uniform, you would sit on the bench all day."

 

And how do you enforce that one? Physically remove the Scout from the meeting? Not give credit for him being there? Are you checking the socks (after all, they are part of the uniform)?

 

 

 

[Hunt]

"My personal opinion is that uniform objectors don't like being told to wear specific uniform clothes. They don't believe their personal objection is a valid enough reason to not wear. So they make up a myriad of other excuses to not wear."

 

Are you suggesting that I am making up my dislike of the current pants? Or do I get off the hook because I wear them anyway? I don't doubt that there are people who don't want to "look like scouts," but this kind of sweeping generalization is just a way of ignoring genuine complaints about the uniform. Since the uniform has changed and will probably change in the future, I don't think it shows any kind of character flaw to discuss how changes might encourage wavering people to wear it. I get tired of the following kind of exchange here:

Poster A: The scout socks are too scratchy.

Poster B: The scout uniform is one of the hallowed methods of scouting, you should be proud to wear it, why are you trying to do away with the uniform, etc., etc., etc.

I know I'm ranting, but this same kind of logic has come up repeatedly in connection with other criticisms of BSA policies. Really, this is only a minor example.

[FScouter]

My personal opinions are ... mine.

Putting it another way, my personal opinion is that some objectors place more importance on their personal likes and dislikes than they do on wearing the uniform as designed and promulgated by our national organization.

 

Id say the exchange goes more like:

I dont like what is.

But we have an obligation to do what is.

Well, I have a different idea, so Im going to do that instead.

 

Discussing changes is fine. Departing from the established standard is arrogant. The message communicated, either spoken or unspoken, is that if I dont like scratchy socks, Im excused from wearing them.

 

Again, no personal offense intended.