What is the official Venturing Uniform For Adults.?

[Eamonn]

I have looked at the inspection sheets and there does not seem to be one for adult leaders in Venturing Crews?

I am aware that a crew can make up a uniform of their own design. What I'm looking for is the Official uniform.

Looking at the inspection sheet it does mention the green loops.

I thought that these could only be worn on the green shirt? But the sheet seems to not say that. But in true BSA style it just doesn't say anything!!

I was of the opinion that Venturing had a uniform of its own. Is this not the case?

The campaign hat is stated as being for Boy Scout Leaders, again no hat is mentioned for Venturing Leaders.

I was all so of the opinion that you couldn't "Mix and Match" uniforms of different programs. Boy Scouter's were not supposed to wear Cub Scout hats and neck-wear.

I don't have a insignia guide handy!!

Eamonn.

[Proud Eagle]

OK.

 

I checked the Uniform and Isignia Guide 2003-2005.

 

On page 30-Venturing Insignia there is the following:

 

"Shoulder loops, green ribbon, No. 00678, Venturer and Venturing adult, on shoulder epaulets worn on the Venturing spruce green uniform shirt. Not to be worn on Boy Scout khaki uniform."

 

That seems rather clear. However it leaves several questions in my mind.

 

For example, why does the adult uniform inspection sheet mention wearing green loops on the khaki shirt?

 

And could someone correct me if I am wrong, but I remember reading something in Boys Life or Scouting, or something like that about adults in Venturing being able to wear the khaki uniform.

 

(Obviously they can't mix a shirt from one area and pants from another, though I have seen a Sr. DE do that.)

 

Also, isn't the Boy Scout khaki uniform also the uniform of the BSA as an organization? After all, you never see the Chief Scout Executive in anything other than Boy Scout khaki (or at least I haven't). So are silver and gold loops authorised for wear on the Venturing uniform? Can a district, council, regional, or national level person choose to use either the Venturing or Boy Scout uniform?

 

It appears I may have been wrong about Venturing adults having an option, though it is obvious many of them think they do by the number that wear green loops on khaki shirts. This leads me to believe that at some point BSA did something to indicate that Venturing adults had a choice about the uniform they wore.

[BadenP]

Proud Eagle

 

The only time green loops are worn on the khaki shirt is for Venture patrols in a troop, not the same as a crew. All Venture crew adults can only wear the spruce green shirt or the uniform the crew decides on, no khaki.

 

Hats for Venture leaders are the two gray ballcap or bucket hat or the scout indiana jones style fedora which is what I wear.

[Trevorum]

"The only time green loops are worn on the khaki shirt is for Venture patrols in a troop, not the same as a crew."

 

Is this true?? I did not know that! I have never seen green loops on a khaki shirt, youth or adult. But a Boy Scout who is in a Venture Patrol may elect to wear the green loops? (I assume it is a Patrol vote?)

[blade1158]

BadenP,

I hate to pick nits, but I have to question Venture patrol members wearing green loops. A Venture patrol is part of a Boy Scout troop, not an extension of a Venture Crew, thus red loops would be proper. Perhaps the name "Venture patrol" is a poor choice and needs to be changed if confusion is being created. I know Varsity Scouts wear the blaze loops, but Varsity scouting is a part of the Boy Scout program, not a separate program as is Venturing.

 

If you have a source for this, please cite it, I'm always willing to learn.

[BadenP]

Blade,

 

I agree with your statement, I have never seen it in a uniform guide either but two SMs told me that their DE told them, after checking with National, it was okay for Venture patrols to wear green loops to diffentiate them from the younger scouts, and that uniform guide is going to be updated soon to reflect this change. Apparently in my council the LDS troops have been doing this for a couple of years now. I have to agree with you and Trev that the green loops should be for crews alone.

[VentureScoutNY]

 

I agree, they do need to maybe change the name of the Venture Patrol. Too many people seem to get confused with it in the Troop.

 

I don't remember the answer but can Venturers wear a campaign hat?

[Eamonn]

The uniform inspection sheet states that the campaign hat is for Boy Scout Leaders. The Scout Stuff page shows two hats for Venturing, neither of which is a Campaign hat.

I don't think that Boy Scouts can wear any other loops other than the red loops.The color identifies the program - Den Chiefs don't wear blue!!

I agree that the Venture Patrol needs a new name how about Pathfinder Patrol?

If a crew came up with a campaign hat as part of their crew uniform that would be ok - I think??

Heck why can't we just have the same uniform for everyone with just the green loops?

Is there a good reason - Other than we have a lot of green shirts in stock?

Eamonn

[JWKnoll]

Perhaps I can help clarify some things. First, there is no such thing as a "Venture Crew". A unit in the Venturing Program is called a "Venturing Crew." Youth members are called "Venturers."

 

Venturing Crews may define their own uniform, if they chose to have a uniform at all. They may choose to use the BSA Venturing Uniform. However, if they do, they must follow the BSA uniforming rules as defined in the Insigina Guide.

 

Green Loops are worn *ONLY* on the (green) BSA Venturing Uniform shirt or blouse - never on the kahki shirt - exactly as the Insignia guide states. No Exceptions. In the early years of Venturing, Adult Venturing Members were allowed to wear the khaki shirt. This was changed several years back; now both youth and adults in Venturing wear the green Venturing shirt, never the khaki. Green loops are for Venturing only, thus the "green loops on green shirt only" in the Insignia Guide. Members of Venturing serving at district, council, or national levels wear the appropriate colored loops on the green shirt (ie silver, gold). For example, Venturers serving on the National Venturing Cabinet wear gold loops on their green shirts.

 

Members of Boy Scout Troops, adult and youth, regardless of Venture Patrol, new scout patrol, or anything- Boy Scouts wear red loops. At least since the creating of Venturing they never have been able to wear green loops. Regarding the DE who claims there will be a change - I believe there was some serious misunderstanding or miscommunication. Our Council Venturing committee has had several members at Philmont Training Center Venturing Week every year, and this certainly would have been mentioned if true. I suspect the situation described with Venture Patrol members in khaki shirts with green loops is actually Venturing Crew members who are wearing the khaki shirt when they should be wearing the green shirt.

 

Regarding confusion with the Uniform Inspection sheet, what is the date on it? Most likely it is (way) out of date with respect to the Insignia Guide.

 

[Eamonn]

Thanks JWKnoll

Welcome.

I think that having been a Venture Scout and a member of a Venture Unit back in England, I do at times mess the name up. Thanks for putting me straight.

You seem t know the In's and Outs of this program.

What about head gear?

Eamonn.

The inspection sheet I looked at was the one on the National web site - I didn't note the date, kinda thought that they would update their stuff as and when!!

(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

[VentureScoutNY]

 

Welcome to the forums JWKnoll, thanks for the info.

 

YIS

 

[JWKnoll]

Our council will be hosting a group from England this summer. In talking with one of their leaders, they have apparently changed the name of their Venture Program to Exploring. Kinda ironic as the BSA did somewhat the opposite. There is still an Exploring Program, but it is part of Learning for Life which is not a scouting division. LFL is actually a separate company owned by the BSA.

 

In the BSA, a youth member of a Venturing Crew is called a Venturer, not a Venture Scout. The leaders are crew officers (President, Secretary, Treasurer, and a number of Vice Presidents). Adult members are Advisors (and assitant advisors) or committee members.

 

Venturing also has different methods from Boy Scouting. In particular, Uniform is not one of them (nor is Patrols or Outdoors). Looking at the Forms page on the national web site, under "Uniform Inspection Forms", there isn't even a form listed for Venturing. Can you be more specific to what you are refering to?

 

I don't have an Insignia Guide handy, but many uniform items are common across all programs. I am not aware of any headgear rules with Venturing, nor am I aware of any crews that have specified head gear. In practice headgear seems to be an individual thing. Venturing members who do wear hats usually wear the brimmed/bush style. If someone wanted to wear a campaign or expedition hat, I don't think anyone wouldn't have a problem with it. Somewhere I've seen a Venturing Logo hat pin, but I didn't see it listed in the 2005 BSA Supply catalog.

 

 

[BadenP]

JW

 

Just a rebuttal to some of your last post. The reason there is so much confusion on the Venturing program is that it has been undergoing many changes since its inception in 1999-2000. There are no uniform sheets because technically there is no uniform in the program. The spruce green shirts were meant mainly for LDS crews who run their program as an older scout troop, since their program is not coed. There is still a lot of confusion in National as to the direction and focus they want Venturing to go. Many council executives and old time scouters still have this peculiar notion that if there is no uniform and the crew is coed it is not really scouting. The LDS crews are not really Venturing because they do not really follow the program.

 

I have seen animosity and jealousy against Venturing crews at some district and council events by scouters who have told the teens they are not really part of the scouting program and that all they do is steal the older boys from the troops. I think National needs to do a much better PR job, once they finally figure out what they want Venturing to be, in defining what place this program has in scouting. If they want the crew to decide on its own uniform then stop publishing photos of crews in the green shirts and gray shorts, knee high socks, etc. and show them portrayed in some of unique uniforms they have selected. Even the advancement awards are modeled to closely with boy scouts,I heard some scouters argue over whether the Ranger award was equal to the Eagle award and they almost came to blows. My feeling is that Venturing needs the same seperation and independence that career Explorer posts enjoy instead of trying to make it a glorified boy scout troop for older teens.

[JWKnoll]

Venturing was rolled out somewhat hastily in Fall 1998 in an attempt to separate what was Exploring into two programs: one that was scouting oriented and had moral membership requirements and another that was career oriented without moral membership requirements. It's true there have been changes, but change is ongoing in all the BSA programs. Venturing is relatively new and most changes have been to move Venturing away from Exploring and Boy Scouting.

 

I don't see any confusion at National Venturing. I agree there is a lot of confusion among long time scouters and professionals, many of whom assume that Venturing is "advanced Boy Scouting with girls." It isn't. But I don't see that as National Venturing's fault. There are materials and training available. Some Venturing basics are covered in New Leaders Essentials. There are Roundtables, Venturing Specific Training; some councils offer Venturing courses at University of Scouting. People need to attend and learn about Venturing instead of assuming they know all about it.

 

There is a BSA Venturing Uniform. However, it is a crew decision to adopt it, or develop their own, or not have a uniform at all. I've never heard the spruce green shirts were meant "mainly for LDS crews." This seems odd considering BSA supplies green blouses and LDS Crews don't have females. And green shirts have been part of various senior scouting programs over the years since at least the 1940s. There is quite a bit of Venturing material that shows crews in polo-shirt or tee-shirt "uniforms". Members who are active at district or council levels normally wear the BSA Venturing Uniform, because crew defined uniforms are obviously not uniform from crew to crew.

 

Each Chartering Organization can tailor the BSA program for their goals. It's true that the LDS have restricted their membership and tailored their programs. That does not mean their Venturing Crews are not "doing" Venturing. Venturing does not come with an integrated activity program like Boy Scouting comes with the Outdoor Program. Outdoors is not a method in Venturing. Each crew can define their own activity program. There are crews that are marching bands, car clubs, ham radio clubs, historical reenactors, photography clubs, service clubs, religious youth groups, scuba clubs and just about anything else you can imagine. I'm sure long time scouters have a difficult time comprehending this compared to the highly structured and integrated Boy Scout Program. I am not knocking either; just pointing out they are different.

 

The award program in Venturing is totally unlike Boy Scouting. Advancement is not a method in Venturing. From what I have seen, few crews create an activity program oriented toward earning awards and only a few Venturers actually pursue awards on their own. There are no ranks in Venturing; no merit badge program. I don't understand how anyone could even try to compare Ranger and Eagle. They are totally different awards. Ranger is strictly an advanced outdoor skill award without any leadership or service requirements or Board of Review.

 

I agree that Venturing needs to be separate and distinct from Boy Scouting. But IMO it is the misinformed scouters and professionals, not National Venturing, that consider Venturing as a glorified Boy Scout Troop for older teens. People need to learn about Venturing and understand what it is and what it is not. I think a little training would go a long way toward eliminating some of the arguments and animosity you have described.

 

[Proud Eagle]

Someone can correct me if I am wrong but...

 

I thought if a uniform was ever official it still was. So if in the early days Venturing adults had an option, that would seem to indicate they still do.

 

 

As to the issue of Crews not being older age Troops with girls, I would agree they should not be. However, many are because they are being run by experienced Scouts and Scouters who carry over a good portion of the program. Also, many Crews recruit older youth from Troops by telling them they will do the same activities, have girls, not have younger kids, and still be able to earn their Boy Scout ranks. So, it isn't just the poor old SM who doesn't understand Venturing, it is also the way Venturing sometimes sells itself. It makes sense that they would use such a sales pitch, after all, Boy Scouts understand Scouting, but they don't really understand Venturing.

 

Perhaps at the national level all is well, but at the local level it is certainly not.

 

It may be that Venturing has moved away from both Exploring and Boy Scouting, but in my mind it still seems like it is stuck someplace in between the two.