Saluting in "Class B" uniform

[Hunt]

Perhaps one reason "Class A" is such a widely used term is that "field uniform" seems nonsensical for a uniform that few would wear in the field. As to saluting, it seems to me that if the boys are truly dressed uniformly--ie, even if it's a uniform troop T-shirt, it is legitimate to consider them "in uniform" and to salute.

[FScouter]

Occasionally we hear the term class X uniform", or class Xs in an announcement at Roundtable, or see it written in a camporee flyer or such. The question that always comes up with new leaders and new boys is What is a class X? The answer is written nowhere. It is so much more to the point to say uniform or activity uniform, terms that are clearly described in every Boy Scout handbook.

[EagleInKY]

Our DE even refers to Class A & Class B.... Come to think of it, summer camp staff (also professionals), also used the term. I wish scouting would either come up with a reasonable name, or just embrace the class naming system.

 

As for saluting, as long as a scout is in a legitimate class b,... oops, activity uniform, then I believe it is acceptible to salute. Legitimate meaning that if he's wearing a t-shirt with blue jeans, white socks, tennis shoes and a Packer's hat, then he's not in uniform. IMHO.

 

[FScouter]

When the boys in a den or troop dress uniformly, it means they are dressed alike. It does not necessarily mean they are wearing the Scout uniform. Boys wearing the uniform salute, boys dressed alike do not. A Troop tee shirt does not a uniform make. When one boy wears the Scout uniform and the rest of the boys wear a tee shirt (dressed alike), there is only one boy wearing the uniform.

[Hunt]

Do you want more uniforming, or more saluting? When you get right down to it, you have to question whether Scouts and Scouters are really "in uniform" for the purposes of the Flag Code. Are Catholic priests in their clerical garb "in uniform?" Baseball players? How about McDonald's employees? The Orkin man? I think the Flag Code is referring to military (and maybe police, etc.) uniforms, not private uniforms. (Note that the Flag Code refers to the "military salute.") But I see no problem with Scouts saluting--it has become traditional, Flag Code or no.

As to the question of whether Scouts in "Class B" uniforms should salute, here's my proposed compromise: Scouts wearing a troop-designated activity uniform should salute, even if it's just a uniform T-shirt...BUT, no person wearing a non-uniform headcovering should salute. (This includes the kid in his field uniform but a Yankees cap). I think the Flag Code (and proper ettiquette) requires that non-uniform hats be removed during a flag salute.

[FScouter]

Theres nothing to compromise, really. The Scout handbook spells out exactly how and when to salute the flag. When in uniform, salute. Since a tee shirt is not a uniform, the correct salute is the right hand over the heart. Catholic priests and others should refer to their respective organizations for guidance.

 

The uniform is defined in the Handbook and options regarding headgear and neckerchief are detailed in the Insignia Guide. Uniforms may be customized within these confines. Troops are not given the right to re-define what constitutes a BSA uniform beyond these options.

[EagleInKY]

FScouter - But, it does not (to my knowlege) say "Field Uniform". It only says uniform. Since scouting does acknowledge an "Activity uniform", and argument can be made for allowing saluting in it, as well.

[SemperParatus]

Just so I know...where do the words 'activity uniform' appear?

 

The Boy Scout Handbook talks about the Boy Scout Uniform (singular - not plural) and goes on to talk about what makes up the complete 'uniform'. I believe the last paragraph/sentence talks about activity dress but does not use the term 'uniform' there. The term 'activity uniform' must exist somewhere since everyone uses that terminology - where is it? in the Insignia Guide?

 

Thanks.

[FScouter]

When in uniform, salute. That includes both the field uniform and the activity uniform. Nowhere is it written that a salute should not be given while wearing the activity uniform. One would not salute wearing only a hat, or only socks, or only shorts. One piece of a uniform is not a uniform. Likewise, a troop t-shirt is only one piece of a uniform. A salute would not be appropriate while wearing only a T-shirt.

 

The Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster Leader Specific Training syllabus describes the official Scout uniform and refers to it as the field uniform. It also describes the activity uniform in detail which includes a BSA T-shirt or activity shirt (designed by the troop or a Scout camp) along with all the other parts of the field uniform. The expedition hat is an option for the activity uniform.

 

The Uniform chapter of the Scoutmaster Handbook also describes the uniform, including the activity uniform which may be worn for informal activities, or physically active outdoor events.

 

Boy Scout Handbook describes the official uniform on pages 12-13. The T- shirt option for outdoor activities is described there too, although the term activity uniform is not used.

 

There are some specific uniform options. The neckerchief is an option. If worn, it may be a stock BSA design, or a troop design. This is decided by a vote of the troop. (Per the Insignia Guide and training syllabus)

 

The hat is optional. If worn it may be the BSA cap, or the campaign hat. The expedition hat is an additional option for the activity uniform. This is decided by a vote of the troop. (Per the SM Handbook and the training syllabus)

 

A BSA belt is part of the uniform. Which belt is at the discretion of the wearer, as long as it is a BSA belt. (Per the Insignia Guide)

 

There is nothing at all wrong with Scouts wearing other clothes, like BDU pants, Wal-mart pants, custom hats, high-tech outdoor fabrics, etc. etc. But they are not parts of the BSA uniform. Saluting the flag is reserved for the uniform only.

 

[Hunt]

This is all kid of picky, but I guess this is a picky topic.

Question 1: Should Scouts be saluting the flag at all? Are they "in uniform" for the purposes of the Flag Code? If they are, does that mean that any private organization can authorize its members to salute the flag when wearing the "uniform" of that organization?

Question 2: How "in uniform" must a Scout be before saluting is appropriate? All elements of the uniform, including belt and socks? If a Scout wearing a "field uniform" shirt can salute even if he isn't wearing the other uniform elements, I don't see the difference between that an a Scout wearing an "activity uniform" shirt.

Question 3: (really picky) If the troop has chosen not to wear the optional Scout hat or cap as part of its uniform, what should uniformed scouts wearing other hats do during a flag salute? Remove the hat and then salute, remove the hat and put hand on heart, or salute while wearing the hat?

[FScouter]

This discussion may be picky, or not. It depends on your point of view. There is a right way. The standard to which we should work is the standard BSA has given us. When we salute the flag as a Scout, we are representing the Boy Scouts of America. The public is watching what we do. Boys are watching what we do. Why not do it the best way, the right way? The best way, the right way, is to wear a complete and correct uniform. Anything less is ... less than best.

 

Your questions are good considering the sloppiness we so often see when Scouts salute the flag.

 

1. Scouts should follow the saluting protocol determined by BSA and published in the Scout Handbook. I would not question whether BSA is violating the U.S. Flag Code. There is nothing in the Code that would suggest that Scouts should not salute the flag. The Code does not define uniform, nor does it specify which organizations may or may not wear uniforms. Id say that whatever other organizations do is between them and the flag code. Boys Scouts should follow the direction of BSA.

 

2. The uniforms (both field and activity) are defined by BSA. There is no degree of uniform. A Scout is either in uniform or not in uniform. Other than the neckerchief, hat, belt, and activity shirt options, troops have no authority from BSA to decide what constitutes a uniform. A troop that decides Walmart pants and white socks may be worn instead of Scout pants and Scout socks has decided they will be always be out of uniform. A Scout wearing only the tan Scout shirt is not in uniform, he is wearing the tan shirt. If a troop wants to salute the flag wearing only a shirt, no one is going to be arrested. This would just be a troop out of uniform, saluting the flag, against the standard set by BSA.

 

3. If a troop opts to not include a hat as part of the uniform, any Scout in the troop wearing a hat, BSA, Yankee, or otherwise, would be out of uniform. If he takes it off, hes back in uniform. Again, a boy wearing a Scout hat when the troop has voted no hat is not going to be arrested.

[Trevorum]

Whether or not it is "picky", I do think it is a forest-for-the-trees issue.

 

The Uniform Police notwithstanding, I am going to encourage our scouts to salute the US flag at every opportunity, even if they are wearing blue jeans or (gasp) white socks.

[FScouter]

Encouraging Scouts to salute the flag is a good thing. At the same time, why not also encourage them to wear their complete uniforms?

[Trevorum]

We do of course, but I cut slack. Maybe we just see the uniform more as a method to achieve the aims, not as an aim in itself. (The last time I said that OGE called me a "tweaker" )

 

I realize that uniforming is a big issue with you (possibly y'all know by now what my "big issue" is) and if your unit can achieve 100% Boy's Life uniforming, that's great and I commend your unit and its leaders!

[hops_scout]

I believe that oranizations must be chartered by the US Congress in order to have the right to salute the flag as we do.

 

On a side note, placing the hand over the heart is also considered a salute and anybody can do that.