Saluting in "Class B" uniform

[Gold Winger]

"I've always taken uniform to mean everyone wearing the same attire. So, if everyone is in Class B's with hats, that's a uniform. Salute away. "

 

Ever been on a navy base? In 20 yards you could see someone in mess dress, someone in service dress, another in undress and yet another in utilities. All are considered to be in uniform and all would be expected to salute when appropriate.

 

Why do you need a cap to salute? Are you following the traditions of the sea services?

 

 

[Rip Van Scouter]

What is funny about this whole "topic" is that the majority of Scouters I encounter seem to accept the BSA uniform shirt as a uniform by itself, even if worn with blue jeans or any other pants or shorts. Yes, it can be a struggle to get the boys to wear the bottom half of the uniform, but if the leaders don't even lead by example, and I see MANY leaders in jeans or other non-uniform pants or shorts at meetings, why should the boys, or the parents for that matter, feel it is important?

 

So if Scouts can salute in half of a uniform, why does it have to be the top half only? I would rather see a boy salute wearing a Scouting t-shirt and uniform pants or shorts (the correct "activity uniform", also called "Class B" by many), than merely wearing a "field uniform" (Class A) shirt only! As has been pointed out, Class B is fairly typical for hot summer camp or other outdoor wear when attending flag ceremonies, and I believe that the Scout salute should be encouraged if there is a genuine attempt to look uniform in appearance(A or B shirt, neckerchief with the A shirt, tucked in at the wasit, and at least some olive green bottoms for Boy Scouts and Webelos, or dark blue bottoms for Cubs and Webelos who still wear the blue uniform. To me, uniform hats (which are optional anyway, right?) and uniform socks are minor issues.

 

I think the one poster is correct, on any military bases you will see many uniforms. I myself wore plain medical whites and a maroon ballcap (with a medical insignia patch) as a medic in the USAF, with merely a nameplate and small collar rank pins to identify it as a military uniform, and yet, I was expected to treat it no differently than my fatigues or blue service uniform, and salute officers and the flag while in that "uniform". Well, OK, we did wear the official USAF blue web belt with the whites, whoo hoo!

 

The idea that a Scout should not salute unless wearing a cap is ridiculous. Military regulations require the wearing of a "cover" outside, and the errant recruit is quickly taught that they are "out of uniform" if any item is missing, especially the "cover" when outdoors. However, as Scouting headgear is optional, it should not be a criterion for whether or not you are "in uniform" to salute.

[FScouter]

The idea that a Scout should not salute unless wearing a cap is ridiculous.

 

I think the idea is that there is no need to remove uniform headgear while saluting.

 

Headgear is optional, but not to the individual Scout. From the uniform inspection sheet for Boy Scouts: All troop members wear the headgear chosen by vote of the troop.

[fgoodwin]

I'm surprised nobody's posted this:

 

====

 

Saluting in uniform

 

http://www.scoutingmagazine.org/issues/0605/d-lett.html

 

Q: In addition to the official Class A Scout uniform, the BSA also has a Class B uniformofficial Scout pants or shorts with a troop or camp T-shirt. My question regards protocol during flag ceremonies: Should a Scout use the Scout salute while in a Class B uniform or place his right hand over his heart?

 

A: First, when referring to uniforms, Class A and Class B are military terms that are not used in the BSA. The correct Scouting terms for the two versions of the uniform are "official uniform" and "activity uniform." Although less formal, the activity uniform is still considered an official uniform, and therefore it is appropriate for boys to use the Scout salute while wearing it during a flag ceremony.(emphasis added)

[acco40]

Yes, good post fgoodwin.

 

Hunt - yes, Class A and Class B are nicknames. But if you've read over many of the BSA training literature, one of the things they frown upon are nicknames.

 

The terms came out of the military and like it or not, the BSA has tried to distance the Boy Scouts from a few things - the military & hunting to name a few. So, I do not use of the terms Class A and Class B in front of the Scouts in our troop. It just adds to the confusion.(This message has been edited by acco40)

[John-in-KC]

Funny. My Council uses the terms Class A and Class B in its official literature.

[scoutldr]

According to what Fred posted, the term "Field Uniform" is no longer used, either.

 

I work in a Navy command. On any given day, you can see all kinds of variations on the "uniform", but regardless of which "uniform" is chosen, it must be worn correctly and completely, down to the shoes, socks and underwear. The most popular now is the "summer khaki", khaki shirt and trousers with collar devices and ribbons. In the winter, they can add a black sweater and/or jacket. The "service dress whites/blues" are reserved for more formal occasions, such as inspections or ceremonies.

[Rip Van Scouter]

John-in-KC wrote: "Funny. My Council uses the terms Class A and Class B in its official literature."

 

Funny. My Council requires (or at least authorizes) the wear of district insignia on the Scouter uniform, in clear violation of the BSA Insignia Guide as follows:

 

"District Insignia - Districts are operational arms of the local council. Individuals are not identified as residents of a district, but of the local council and the Boy Scouts of America. For this reason district insignia is not authorized for wear on the uniform. Where it seems desirable to identify district participation in council activities, district flags or banners may be authorized. They are described in the flag portion of this book."

 

So it seems that Council actions and policies are not always in accordance with National!

 

 

 

 

 

[John-in-KC]

Funny. My Council also uses District patches. We're starting to migrate away from them, though. It's part of the de-cluttering of doo-dads and knicknacks as we migrate to the new uniform.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[Rip Van Scouter]

John,

 

I am confused. How do you "migrate away from" the use of District patches? I would think they are either allowed, or they are not.

 

And, what "new uniform" would you be "migrating" towards? Has something new appeared on Scoutstuff.org as a new "official uniform"? I have not seen anything like that. The only new shirts I have seen recently have been "activity", "action", or "crew" shirts (found under "Apparel", not "Uniforms"). The new "switchback" official uniform pants are only one more variation on the olive green pants/shorts that have been used for many years now.

 

By the way, one man's "clutter" is another man's recognition and identification! In fact, I do not see any major change in insignia (other than the ADDITION of the US Flag, the International Scouting patch, and Square Knots) since I was a Boy Scout in the early 1970's. Besides the elimination of the District patch in your council (which is not authorized by National anyway), what other "de-cluttering" is taking place?

[Pack212Scouter]

Wow....Rip Van Scouter...how long have you been sleeping? Had to se the play on names. The is a new uniform coming out in August replacing the official uniform for Boy Scouts, Leaders, and Webelos who wear tan. It consists of new hat, new shirt, new pants, new belt, and new socks.

 

Here is the link to the brocure. http://kudu.net/uniforms/BSA_newuniform.pdf

[Rip Van Scouter]

OK, 212! I may be slow, or sleepy, but you didn't need to post it 4 time!

 

I must have missed the Roundtable where they made the announcement. Or maybe GSLAC is starting a rebellion! Is there a similar new uniform (other than the new Cub Switchbacks) in blue for the Cub Scout program? Or will all Cubs, not just Webelos, eventually be wearing tan and (forest) green?

 

I wonder why BSA felt the need to switch from olive green to forest green? Especially since the military abandoned olive green anyway in favor of camouflage several years ago. At least it was possible for parents to buy olive green cargo or other casual pants or shorts, rather than the expensive BSA pants. Is this National Supply's not-so-subtle way to force parents to buy the "official" pants? It is doubtful anyone will find anything like this "forest green" at Wal-mart, Target, or Kohl's!

 

Why isn't there anything on this on Scouting.org?

[FScouter]

Everything there is to know about new uniforms is here:

http://www.bsauniforms.org

http://www.scoutstuff.org/bsasupply/images/pdfs/BSA_011_broch_AB.pdf

 

You need the latest version of Adobe Reader to read the PDF.

For commentary, see the topic in the Uniforms forum.

 

[Pack212Scouter]

Sorry about that Rip Van Scouter...I was having browser issues and it didn't show the post going through...

 

To the best of my knowledge, the Cub Scout uniforms are not planned to change at this point with the exception of Webelos Tans. On the other hand...most of us didn't know much about this change until right before the announcement.

[Stosh]

Gotta love this stuff. After 7 pages of discussion the answer still alludes the forum. A unit can decide what it's uniform is, irregardless of the standard inspection protocol and when it comes to saluting, ignores the official US flag code altogether.

 

Let me sum it up: Do what you want to do, because no one does it the same anyway. People can't even come up with a consensus of what a scout uniform is anyway and when all is said and done, it's not required anyway. If one does it sincerely, surely it must be ok. And let's all be honest, one isn't going to change their own tradition no matter what one says on the forum.

 

It does however emphasize how many different "official" ways it's being done all over the country.

 

Stosh