Proper wearing of Uniform

[Kemosabe]

I'd like to know if there are any Troops out there that have uniforming dress codes for the proper wearing of caps (backwards like a catcher) and trousers (worn below the hip bone - considered "cool" by some boys). Thank you!

[BPwannabe@137]

My cubs and webeloes try that already. Without making a big deal, I just point and say, "Fix that cap." They get the message.

[SemperParatus]

Our 'dress code' is wear the uniform. Nothing specific on backward hats or droopy drawers. Too many rules on this can get confusing and the scouts will begin to make it a game by finding the exceptions. I am sure I have seen what you have described in our troop, but it seems to disappear quickly, so I guess either somebody (another scout, parent, adult leader) said something or the scout took a good look at himself in the mirror.

[EagleInKY]

No "policy" per se. Like BP, if I see a scout wearing something inappropriately, I'll just tell him to fix it.

 

Interestingly, I've seen this handled very directly twice recently. At woodbadge, one of the participants had his hat on backwards. The SM walked over to him and asked him to wear it correctly. Only those standing next to him heard it.

 

At summer camp, some boys came up to the rifle range for class with their field uniform shirts on, but unbuttoned and untucked. The Rifle range instructor asked them to wear them right, or not wear them at all. They took them off.

[acco40]

During my Woodbadge class we were doing something outside (forgot exactly what) and I was in my field uniform. I also had a bandanna which was wrapped around one of the belt loops on my shorts. The class was in the August time frame and the weather was extremely hot. I used the bandana to mop my brow and dry my hands after washing in the field. The purpose of wearing outide as opposed to in my pocket was so that it could air dry. Anyway, one day a member of the staff chastised me for having it stating that it was not part of a the uniform and to remove it. I promptly did and put it in my pocket. I thought it was a ridiculous request but why fight it and complied with his request.

 

Don't make mountains out of mole hills when confronted with uniform issues.

[KoreaScouter]

I can appreciate the "keep it in perspective" argument. But, when you get right down to it, it's all molehills, isn't it? None of these methods are life or death. What are the real life consequences if a lad doesn't have official pants, can't remember the definition of "reverent" at his BOR, if a unit camps 10 nights a year instead of 15, or if the Troop guide forgot the compass, so the hike doesn't count for advancement?

 

None of these things are mountains; they're all molehills. But to me, that's the same as saying "...two rules: one, don't sweat the small stuff. And, two, it's all small stuff", as an excuse for trivializing it. Sure, it's a molehill, but if all you have are molehills, then your molehills just became your mountains.

 

Every once in a while, I get a Green Bar ask me if they can wear their full uniforms less often. I always reply by trying to put it in perspective. The uniform is one of the eight methods. If you're okay with using one of the eight methods only 25% of the time, can we develop leaders only 25% of the time? How about follow an advancement program only 25% of the time? Or get outdoors only three months of the year? Of course those notions sound ridiculous. But, when applied to the uniform method, many are perfectly okay with it. Love it or hate it, the uniform is what it is. In the same way that letting boys lead is often chaotic and inefficient, and I know an adult could do it better, I bite my lip and let them develop, because leadership development's a method. In the same sense, other clothing would be more comfortable/durable/cheaper, but I bite that lip again and pull that uniform on, because it too is a method.

 

Maybe we should count our blessings. If there's a discrepancy to correct, at least that means the Scout is wearing a uniform in the first place.

[EagleInKY]

Nice post KS.

 

How's the weather in Hawaii? It's starting to get ugly here.

[Owl62]

Our troop has a policy but it is more or less common sense based. Scouts are asked to wear the uniform as completely and as correctly as possible. Since many of our Scouts are younger, we don't push official pants or shorts (due to growth issues but encourage them and most of them have them. Also, we are essentially a "hatless" troop, although those that have official hats often wear them - and we allow "activity" hats with any uniform - especially at troop functions, and when camping. But they have to be Scout related or be plain with no logos.

 

Same thing with T-Shirts. They have to be Scout related or plain. Several years ago we had one Scout who insisted on wearing a black t-shirt with a large marijuana leaf on it. We told him he could wear it anywhere else that it was allowed but not in Scouting. He chose to leave the unit and Scouting - over a t-shirt. Recently we found a way to make inexpense troop t-shirts and are working on that. The Scouts can use any plain t-shirt they have and we apply a design to it. We are not insisting on the same t-shirt color but the designs are the same.

 

We started having some problems several years ago with pants that were baggy and worn so low that they were nearly falling off. After one Scout tripped and fell (he was not injured) because of them, we added them to the policy - stating safety and uniform concerns. They went away and most of the Scouts wear official pants or something as close to it as they can find.

 

We got a bunch of new Scouts right out of Webelos a while back who for the most part wore very correct and complete uniforms in Webelos and brought that to the Troop. Sometimes we have to enourage one or two to tuck their shirts in. They actually adopted a neckerchief last spring (for the first time in the history of the troop) and while wear is optional except at formal ocassions, most of the Scout wear them when in the official field uniform. One told us he can't wait to get the Wood Badge neckerchief (and he is only 12!)!!

 

Most of our Scouts wear complete and correct uniforms on their own now and we only have to make a few corrections and don't make a big deal of it. Seems to work. Most of the adults wear complete uniforms and that helps. The Scouts do watch the adults. We are finding much greater compliance with uniforming. They seem to enjoy wearing it now.

 

 

 

[NWScouter]

While it is good and well to encourage the wearing of the full we must remember that the uniform is a method of scouting not the complete uniform. To that young boy who just got his Cub Scout shirt and wears it to bed because he so proud to have it, he doesnt care about pants. Or the young Boy Scout that is so proud to wear his Scout shirt with his new Scout badge even though all he has to wear with it is his jeans.

The uniform as a method means it identifies the young man as a member of Scouting and ties him to the other Scouts it matters not if it just is uniform shirt, cap, or day camp shirt, all worn with pride and Scouting Spirit -- this fulfills the uniform method.

 

While the uniform is one of the eight methods of Scouting, attention to it should be kept in perspective. Ultimately, the boy inside the uniform, rather than the uniform itself, is what is important. The uniform is of value to the extent that it encourages boys to grow as Scouts, leaders, and young men.

 

Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster Leader Specific Training, p. 151

 

[acco40]

NWScouter, I agree with your post. The uniform is of value to the extent that it encourages boys to grow as Scouts, leaders, and young men. However, one way to keep this value is to stop using the term "full uniform." There is a uniform, period. Well, actually there is two, a field unifomr and an activity uniform. A Scout is either wearing it or he is not. Same goes with Scouters.

 

When we as Scouters make judgement calls on the methods of Scouting (we have taken a promise to deliver the Scouting program to our youth, not a part of it) by issuing such statements as "our troop doesn't require scout pants" or other such tripe we are not delivering the program as it was intended. Now, as SM, I know that a uniform is not required and I don't make it a requirement for BORs, SM conferences, COHs, etc. but I have the expectation that all Scouts will be in an appropriate uniform for all Scouting functions.

 

[Eamonn]

One of the Scouts who attended the 2001 Jambo presented me with a photo of myself along with two of the ASM's all wearing our Jambo blue ball caps backward and all three of us wearing dark glasses. We were attending the closing show and were just having some fun. I don't like hats or caps and hate wearing one. I think that wearing one backward is OK depending on the time and the place. A Lad chopping wood or reading a map - I don't have a problem. Wearing it backward at colors - Is not the right time or place.

The pants thing is already on the way out. So I'm informed by my 16 year old fashion adviser! He now has a new thing with the shirt, he tucks it in and then half un-tucks it, so it sort of hangs over his belt. Watching him go through this shirt tucking and un-tucking ceremony was a new one on me.

I attended our Lodge August OA weekend, he is busy at these weekends and has very little to do with me. On the Saturday before supper there was the flag ceremony. He was in charge of the color guard. I heard him tell one of the officers of the Lodge that he couldn't be part of the ceremony because he wasn't in full uniform. All the Scouts who he selected were in full correct uniform.

I agree that we need to keep everything is perspective and we do deal with the wants and needs of each Scout as an individual. The little Lad that is wearing the shirt is fine so long as there is a long or short term goal to get him into the rest of the uniform.

I don't see in the passage that was taken from the training anyplace where it says "Don't wear the uniform" In fact I see "The uniform is of value to the extent that it encourages boys to grow as Scouts, leaders, and young men. As saying Hey do what you can to get these Lads in a uniform, it is a good tool.

While the wants and needs of the individual are way up there on my list we do need to keep that in perspective. If a normal healthy Lad is having a problem with a requirement we can't advance him in order that he will feel good. If he doesn't get on with the adults in the troop, we aren't going to remove them. We aren't going to cancel Summer Camp because he doesn't like to camp. We aren't going to allow him to change Patrols, because the Scout who was elected Patrol Leader wasn't the one that he wanted.

Part of being a Scout is accepting the ideals of Scouting. I, as most people in these forums know am not for long lists of rules, guidelines; dress them up with any title you like. I do feel that every Scout and every Scout parent is aware that Scouts and Scouting is a uniformed organization. Most of us are willing to get past the little Lad who is on his way to get a uniform. However, OJ was right on the money when he wouldn't allow non-uniformed Scouts to take part in the OA flag ceremony. Each and every Scout there must have belonged to this organization long enough to acquire a uniform. They choose not to wear it. I can maybe get past these Lads not owning a pair of long pants, but it was warm enough for them to still wear shorts.

I am really surprised how moans and groans I'm hearing from the parents of the Scouts attending the next Jamboree, when I explain that their son will be in a uniform for the entire time that we are away. I have to wonder what these Scouts wear when they are away with their home troop? I don't care what we call it but every uniform we have calls for socks, pants and belt, the only thing that changes is the shirt. We now have lots of socks to choose from. OJ likes them silly ones that you can hardly see. Thanks to his participating in the Jamboree he does have a couple of extra Scout Shirts. He only recently out grew the one that he got as a Webelos Scout.He looked like an over stuffed sausage, so we donated it to the troop uniform bank. He used to steal my socks, but I like the long socks and they are not cool. For NOAC we did need to buy a couple of new pairs of shorts. They cost about a little less than half what we spend on his soccer shoes /boots. I added his old shorts to my pile as they still fit me.

I don't see finding a uniform for a Lad as a problem. The problem is that we are not doing a good enough job of making our Scouts want to wear it.

Eamonn.

 

[Fuzzy Bear]

The 'boy inside the uniform is the most important part of Scouting' is consistent with everything else that we do and say. The uniform is secondary and should be unimportant is only one assumption. It could be understood differently. The boy is first and the uniform is secondary but there is a uniform. If the boy does not have a full uniform because of economic problems, then learning about budgeting, earning your own way, getting a part-time job all become important but is always secondary to the boy. Establishing a uniform bank or seeking alternative ways of uniforming Scouts can be an important part of the committee function to support the boys. It is not the main role of the committee but is secondary, the boys are always primary to all aspects of program support but there is program support.

 

Wearing the uniform is important but foremost is the Scout inside the properly worn full uniform is another view. Why are the Scouts more important than the uniform? They have the greatest value. They cannot be replaced in any way. They are primary to any method of Scouting. The most important method of Scouting is the Outdoors program. The Outdoors program has limits, as we know in the Guide to Safe Scouting, the reason? The boy is important but his safety is paramount. Do Scouts still get hurt and/or die from our activities, yes but we do not end the Outdoors program. We find out what went wrong and attempt to find the proper safety measures for the future. We don't throw out the method simply because it is secondary to the very reason for Scouting, the boy.

 

FB(This message has been edited by Fuzzy Bear)

[Fuzzy Bear]

Boys are not given the duty to decide on the uniform. The uniform has already been decided on and we have agreed to abide by that code of dress. The reason for calling it a uniform is that we are attempting to demonstrate that we are similar to each other in our ideals and different from those that do not abide by the same kind of ideals.

 

The uniform is a statement of purpose. It says that a boy has made a conscious decision to become a Scout. He has taken an Oath that he will live within certain boundaries and part of those boundaries is the type of dress code he chooses. As leaders, we are there to support those decisions and to assist the Scout in reaching those goals, including uniforming.

 

I do not see any of the methods of Scouting as small and/or incidental but each as important aspects of the program which has as its' goals of character development, citizenship development and physical fitness, all worthy attainments.

 

 

FB

[acco40]

One thing that I have mentioned before, and I admit it was to stir the pot and make people think, was that the BSA does not "rank" the eight methods of Scouting. One is not more important than another in the eyes of the BSA (i.e. Outdoors vs. the Uniform).

 

When should take care not to let our individual biases take root.

[Aardvark]

Maybe it's due to the 20 years I spent in the Air Force, but when I'm in Uniform I try to look sharp-and expect others to do so also.

 

I know that people look at me with a special interest when in Uniform in public, and I am setting an example for the Scouts.

 

Have tried to explain this to my Scouts, and have had mixed results...

 

Still also trying to get them to assume the proper stance of "Attention" at Flag Ceromonies; hands out of pockets, stand up straight and Proud; also an uphill battle!

 

Don't think I'm asking too much, do you?