Cub uniform pants - why does no one wear them?

[paschalljf]

RipVanScouter,

 

I agree that uniformity should be sought and in this case, and the better judgment would probably lead toward choosing the blue 'cargo pants', I cannot agree in the inference that this is reprehensible. You point out that this does in fact violate the 'letter of the law' and possibly the 'spirit' of the current BSA rules. However, I will also point out that the current BSA rules are in gross violation of the spirit and letter of B-P's original intent for scouting. Which is the more egregious violation? B-P would be rolling over in his grave to hear that professional Scouters are trying to force boys to buy over-priced and poorly made garments. Of course, he would have started rolling over long ago when we first made an 'official' uniform that was neither the best-made nor the best-priced. As I originally stated, Scouting's original intent was to seek uniformity by having boys dress similarly as they pursue the more important 'character-building' of Scouting. Any steps further toward instituting official garments and strictly forcing compliance to purchase them, just gets in the way of Scouting as we were intended to pursue it.

 

BTW. Lest I be accused of being anti-uniform: I am a United States Marine and understand the needs of uniformity. However, I also know when a bureaucracy is no longer taking care of the troops.

 

Semper Scouts,

 

CM Pack 683

 

[Rixkidz]

Our Pack Bylaws allow the boys/adults to wear Dark Blue pants or Blue Jeans. No other color allowed.. is it enforced ? HA HA HA

 

Drives me crazy

[paschalljf]

I think the by-law is probably a good approach- better if actually enforced, because as folks have pointed out, we actually are a uniformed organization although we disagree sometimes on how far that should be enforced. I also have a hard time with leaders who have untucked shirts, too tight shirts (overweight Scouter issues aside, if you expand, you should get a bigger shirt), and boys who come partially uniformed because their parents can't find certain items. When all is said and done, we have to strike a balance between being flexible in our 'militarism' in order to encourage the growth of young boys, but still avoid compromising the key aspects of scouting. It's not ans easy issue, but that's why we can discuss it in forums like this.

 

For those interested, I'd recommend reading Baden-Powell's 1908 'Scouting for Boys'. I just finished it and it is pretty eye-opening to see how far we have strayed from his vision in some aspects (check the part on 'uniform')

 

Semper Scouts,

 

CM Pack 683

[Torveaux]

I agree that condoning a non-blue pant is a bad idea. If they look that good, lobby for a universal uniform change so the boys all look the same.

 

As a cub scout leader, I try to be as in uniform as is practical for our family. I wear Dockers that look like the official pants because it is the right thing to do for my family. The kids couldn't care less and most of the parents don't know the difference. (Most of the other leaders wear blue jeans).

 

My recommendation is that to make Cub Scouting more accessible and to better differentiate between Cubs and Boys, the cub leaders wear a Navy Blue Docker or similar pant. The boys' pant (both cubs and boys) should be uniform in color and style, but the families should be free to find the best deal they can. If National wants to continue to sell 'official' pant items, that would be cool for those boys who like official buttons and the like.

 

If you really examine the uniform pant idea for Cubs, it is almost silly. For most boys, they wear an individual pair of pants perhaps 24-30 hours before they outgrow them. Shirts are more flexible that way, but the pants usually last about 6 months (4 1-hour meetings per month + extras. At $30+, that is huge. Pants of the same color that are not 'official' cost half that amount and can be worn for other occasions as well. Sure, they are not immune to the growth factor, but the value involved goes well beyond the 'sticker' price.

 

What value does it teach my boy to spend an inordinate amount of money on what amounts to vanity? We try to teach them how to be responsible with money and with natural resources. How is wearing a pair of pants for 30 hours helping the environment?

 

In many ways, the inflated cost of the pants is also a hidden cost. That is a rather untruthful way of getting funding. If Scouts need larger fees, charge them. I gained two additional families to our den this year specifically because we did not "nickel and dime" them by requiring den dues. People want to know up front what the costs of membership really are. If the specific uniform is that important to National, they should up the enrollment fees to cover the cost and issue the uniform to everyone.

 

Dark blue Dockers-style or cargo pants do not violate the spirit of uniforming. Quibbling beyond that about the 'official' nature of the items is counter-productive to providing a good program for the kids.

[paschalljf]

Amen, brother. I'm pretty sure that B-P himself would agree wholeheartedly. Now that we have identified the problem, does anyone know the proper venue for bringing this issue up to national to at leats engage in some debate at their level?

[BelieveinScouts]

I'm sorry, but I agree with Zippie. My son has Blue Pants with his School Uniforms. He wears those. They match perfectly. They also only run about $10.00, as opposed to the $30.00, unhemmed pants at the Scout Shop. I'm not a seamstress. It's all I can do to get his patches sewn on. I'm also his Den Leader, and I have told my parents not to bother with the Official Pants at the Scout Shop. It cost me almost $150.00 to out fit my son for Scouts. If there is one less thing for us to buy, I'm all for it. I love Scouting but it's an expensive Hobby. Not to mention the fact that we have to drive 40 mins to get to the closest Scout Shop. When is the BSA Catalogue going to offer online shopping? That would make life so much easier.

[FScouter]

I detect a bit of not-so-hidden guilt in the tone of some of these posts from those that do not wear the uniform and seek to justify their position. There is no reason to get upset. No one is going to be arrested for failing to wear the uniform. Do as your heart directs you and be comfortable in your decision.

 

Strange as it may seem there are some of us that believe in the uniform and wear it. We promote uniforming and work to help every boy to have one. I would ask you, in the spirit of Scouting, and out of respect for the official uniform to not trample our efforts. Please don't tell boys or parents to wear something else. And please don't write unauthorized "bylaws" in an attempt to legitimize other practices.