Cub uniform pants - why does no one wear them?

[Rip Van Scouter]

My pet peeve is this unwritten policy that seems to pervade councils, districts and packs. That is that it is OK to wear just about any other kind of pants with the uniform shirt in Cub Scouts. BSA uniforming policy says that only "official" long pants and shorts should be worn with the "field uniform", which includes the official uniform shirt, blue for Cubs, tan for leaders (optional for Webelos). Activity shirts, like polos and T-shirts are of course a totally different matter.

 

However, when I go to our Pack meeting, and even the Blue and Gold dinner, I see such a hodgepodge of pants, from wind pants and sweats to blue jeans, with only a vague attempt to be blue, let alone matching "navy blue" in color. Even the other leaders usually wear blue jeans, khakis, or some other casual pants instead of the "official" green pants or shorts.

 

Even at our District Roundtable, I would say that about 95% of Cub Leaders in attendance wore blue jeans. After the meeting I approached the District leader (I am not sure of his position) who had conducted the Cubmaster/Committee idea/training session about this, to try to find out just what the district/council policy was. All he would says was that, yes, officially, the uniform pants are required, but even in his home pack he often wears jeans with his tan shirt. (At the time he WAS wearing official green pants)

 

Well, of course, if the LEADERS don't wear official uniforms, how can we expect the boys to do so? If wearing official pants is such a burden that no one (hardly) does it, why doesn't the BSA just go ahead and make an official policy change that at least defines acceptable alternative for boys pants (i.e. dark, not faded or "washed", blue jeans or true monocolor "navy blue" dress or causual pants with belt loops). This would give more of a true "uniform" appearance than the current situation. Similarly, leaders could wear a suitable "olive green" pants. Certainly, dockers-type khaki-style pants in the correct shades are widely available and reasonably priced as compared to the "official" pants.

 

Don't get me wrong, I have purchased, and intend to wear the "official" green pants, both long and short. But, I can see a need to at least formalize and regulate what seems to be the current status quo in Cub Scout boy and leader uniforming. Or is the BSA too dependent on the profits from uniform pants and shorts that are quicly outgrown to even broker some kind of compromise?

 

In the meantime, I will be trying to organize a "uniform closet" for our pack to at least encourage correct uniforming by making uniform parts available for free to those who would not otherwise purchase them for their boys. The sad thing is that even my own wife objected to buying long pants for our two boys as a "waste of money" since they would quickly outgrow them and "no one else" wore them anyway! (I did buy them official shorts, which they love, but winter time requires something warmer!)

 

I am cross-posting this to the "Uniforms" forum.

[ML2]

During my son's first meeting, the DE told all the parents about how they needed to purchase a uniform for their son, and then told them not to worry about purchasing the trousers.

 

It is a pet peeve of mine too that leaders/organizers etc. all over routinely contradict what rules state.

 

-ML(This message has been edited by ML2)

[zippie2223]

We have never had the problem of kids not weearing the blue pants. It helps that the kid uniform for schools requiers blue pants that match the blue Cub Scout shirts.

 

I would never buy those 30$ pants at the scout shop. You can always buy a pair at Wal-Mart for 10$.

[isvirtual]

The "official" pants are uncomfortable and do not fit. It is a very difficult decision to lay down $30-45 for clothing that doesn't fit well. My experience is the official BSA clothing is designed for adults with zero body fat that tend to be taller and slimmer than the current population.

 

If the boys and adults wear trousers that resemble the uniform, I give them credit for making the effort.

 

BSA is missing a great opportunity to serve their members by not redesigning the lower half of their uniforms. My guess is they'll consider this when the current inventory is depleted.

[Bolo]

I tend to agree with all the comments above, specifically the cost/boy growth factor of the

pants. Leaders not wearing the uniform is another issue which should be addressed and re-inforced at training.

It could be addressed to the boys as a "scout spirit" issue with a prize (ribbon for their den flag)for the den who appears uniform in appearance even if it means dark jeans, or whatever pants the pack decides upon. Or, a pack uniform inspection held at a designated pack meeting might also work. Don't forget to inspect their fingernails ("A Scout is Clean"). Guarantee the scouts will have clean fingernails at their next meeting!

As for me, as past DL, CM and currently ASM with our troop, I have always worn my complete uniform at ALL scout meetings - unit, district and council levels - even on campouts. Gotta set the example!

[Trevorum]

We should remember that uniforming is a METHOD and not an AIM of scouting. The aims are Building Character, Fostering Citizenship, and Promoting Personal Fitness. The methods should be adjusted to fit the circumstances. An entire unit in full Class A looks spiffy, but that's not the point.

[ML2]

I agree with all the points mentioned. I could debate for days the issues about the cost, appropriateness, design, fit of the uniform. Basically, I'm not impressed with the uniform.

 

But, the issue that I believe RipVanScouter was presenting, which I agree with, is the leaders (at whatever level; Nat'l, District, Troop, whatever) who espouse the ideals of the BSA and yet blatantly or, with a wink & a nod, ignore the uniform issue.

 

I believe the uniform is important. I don't believe that it is the most important issue, but it is important. If there are problems with the uniform, then let's fix it so that it can serve its purpose instead of being ignored.

 

I have no experience with how Councils or Nat'l work. I spent my entire time with Boy Scouts doing fieldcraft, being deep in the woods, and counseling various merit badge classes at summer camps. But, I would think that Nat'l would listen if enough leaders got together and presented well thought out suggestions for changes to the uniform.

 

I also think that this forum is a perfect place to put together a proposal. If each leader here takes this issue to his troop and comes up with sincere proposals he/she could then take it to the District level and confer with other leaders. Put together a District proposal. Then move on to Council. Keep it moving. At some point the proposals could be fielded on this board to share ideas nationally.

 

Once a good proposal is attained, appoint a person to submit it to Nat'l and follow up. If Nat'l simply won't listen, then we have bigger problems than the uniform.

 

-ML

[FScouter]

Gotta set the example!

What kind of example is set by awarding a prize for wearing whatever pants the pack decides upon?

 

The methods should be adjusted to fit the circumstances. An entire unit in full Class A looks spiffy, but that's not the point.

Under what circumstances should the uniform method be ignored (adjusted)?

[Trevorum]

I've seen many circumstances when the preferred methods have needed to be adjusted. For example, camping is a *great* part of the program but it doesn't appeal to ALL boys (for reasons I can't fathom). If we want to instill the aims in these boys, that method can be modified.

 

Similarly for advancement. It is a great method and works well for most boys. However, some guys s

[Trevorum]

aargh! why are my posts being truncated? help!

[OldGreyEagle]

Trev old fellow, I must take exception to your words

 

"...The aims are Building Character, Fostering Citizenship, and Promoting Personal Fitness. The methods should be adjusted to fit the circumstances..."

 

See the Scout program is using the Methods to reach the Aims. One may acheieve the aims of charactor, citizenship and personal fitness by many different methods and while the results would be laudable, they wouldnt be scouting. Its the unique combination of

 

Advancement

Ideals

Patrols

Outdoors

Adult Association

Personal Growth

Leadership development

Uniform

 

that make the prgram what it is

(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[SWScouter]

Actually, since this is a Cub Scout forum, I think it would be best to list the methods for Cub Scouting, not Boy Scouting:

 

Ideals

Dens

Advancement

Uniform

Neighborhood & Community

Family

 

and, oh my, I'm having a brain fade. Someone help me out here, what is the other method of Cub Scouting?

[Trevorum]

OGE - I agree 100% that it is the unique combination of these methods that makes for Scouting. Scouting needs ALL of the methods. However, my point was that the methods should not be rigidly implemented, without loosing sight of the big picture, ie, the aims. If we need to modify (not eliminate) a method to better reach a scout or group of scouts, I'm all for it.

[OldGreyEagle]

::moans:: ::gasps::

 

Oh no ! ::realization setting in:: Not another tweaker!

 

::Slumping to floor in exhaustion::

 

[FScouter]

OGE - You didn't know? We can better reach more Scouts, without losing the big picture, by each leader re-defining the uniform method and re-defining the camping method. Boys in one unit are not the same as boys in another unit. It takes the wisdom of the unit leader to re-define the methods to fit the uniqueness of the boys in each specific unit. BSA hasn't realized this yet, but someday they will surely come to their senses and turn those rigid inflexible methods into loose guidelines to be interpreted at will by individual unit leaders. Excuse me now, I just got a new idea to fix the uniform problem and need to write it into the bylaws.