What patches may be worn on red wool Jac-shirt?

[Double Eagle]

I have to jump into this one.  First, I'm all for covering any jacket with patches if it makes you or the scouts market scouting.  I have never seen any unit that had the same outer shell or  jacket.  Every scout and scouter had their own jacket in my time in Michigan, Canada, upstate New York and Switzerland. 

And just to get others tweaking...There used to be a white Philmont bull, we said females used; while males used the black bull.  Also, there is constant discussion on the criteria for the bull's tail over the left shoulder seam as Baldy or Tooth.  That should get some on here going.

I think it would be great to see someone get their neckerchief in a bunch (keeping it nice) over what is on someone's jacket.  Its almost as unnecessary as a pristine OA sash.

 

[mrkstvns]

I'm not inclined to sew a bunch of patches on the red wool jackets because the jackets cost so freakin' much.

For me, the more appropriate place to sew all those extra patches is on a red patch vest (or maybe on a "brag" blanket).

Besides, since I do most of my camping in Texas, I don't really WANT a heavy wool jacket on campouts just to show off a few temporary patches. For me, the flimsy felt vest isn't nearly so stifling hot on those toasty warm January nights around the campfire...

https://www.scoutshop.org/cub-scout-adult-patch-adult-vest-red-600538.html 

[Double Eagle]

Oh no, personal preference dipping into this.  I have to put the red felt brag vest right up there with the red beret (which I have for some unknown reason).  I would rather drink bug juice in the dark than have the brag vest.  I would have it torn up or lost on the first trip.  Brag blanket is another story.  An old army wool blanket and patches is awesome.  With a pillow case with patches on one side and blank on the other is cool too.  You display the patches during the day and flip the pillow over (patches down) at night.  

[Cavan]

The Red Jacket is a personal item and therefore there are no regulations from the BSA on what you can and cannot wear on it.

 

I find it crazy that this question was made before I was born and in the time that this was made and now I and many others were able to be born grow up a little and even become Eagle Scouts. The fact that this was made so long ago and is still active just shows how old the internet is getting and how everything on it will literally last forever. The person who made this is now nearly 20 years older than they were when this was submitted. They were just going about their daily business and asking a question. They had no idea that 17 years from then there would be a then unborn child answering it. 

If you read this thank you. Maybe there will be people reading this comment 17 or 170 years from now.

 

[MattR]

Welcome to the forum, @Cavan.

I read the entire thread, from the first post, apparently before you were born, to the last, and one possibility is that in 2004 there were rules about what could go on a red jacket. Somewhere in the first handful of posts people seemed fairly sure there was a document describing where patches could go. Those posts also included descriptions of other ways for people to display their patches. That lasted until about 2007. Then there's a long gap until a post in 2019 where the idea that any patches can be placed anywhere on a red jacket (plus more posts on how silly this subject is). About two years later you posted.

So, is it possible that circa 2004 there were rules and sometime before 2019 those rules were changed? If there's one thing I've learned in being nearly 4 times older than you is that things change. When I was your age we could send scouts to look for left handed smoke shifters, we were told to dig trenches around our tents, we only cooked on fires and we never filtered water. Whether or not there were rules about patches on red jackets, I don't know. I'm sure I never thought about it. But, I had a great history teacher and did learn to appreciate how amazing history can be.

So, tell us a bit about what you like about scouting and where you put all your patches. For me, I liked the outdoors, the adventures and the friends I had. As for my patches, they went in a box, which I still have.

[qwazse]

@Cavan, welcome to the forums!

@Rip Van Scouter, if you're still out there, you've dropped a pebble that's still rippling through the pond!

So, there's these things called troop libraries that should hold old books, pamphlets, and magazines from well before Al Gore and I invented the internet. There was even a Book-Binding MB that showed scouts how to turn old copies of Boy's Life and Scouting into bound volumes. Moreover, may public libraries preserved them, and many of us who read the write-in sections even saw  correspondence from girls who were avid readers of those volumes. Sadly, many libraries are in disrepair, and book-binding skill may be lost to history. The digitized versions, although they get lots of hits and likes, pale in comparison to the circulation of these magazines in their time. I have met young men in search of Boy Scout handbooks from well before their time, and I would have never imagined that they couldn't simply walk to the local library to discover what they were looking for.

So, unlike you, I find it crazy that many a great correspondence from a century ago is relatively inaccessible to the average teen.

Let that be a cautionary tale. Without the diligent assistance of your generation, all of this great literature spawned from the largest youth movement in history will be hidden from youth of the future.

Edited August 1, 2022 by qwazse

[Mrjeff]

There used to be different kinds of red jackets, cotton, nylon, wool, along with a blue explorer jacket.  In the 90s thay came out with an od green wall jack shirt, and Northern Tier has one with slash/hand pockets.   I have a green one and a red one and the last time I checked there are no uniform standards concerning jackets as they are considered a non uniform, personal item.  I'm not saying that this is the absolute answer, just what I discovered through experience and research.  Its your jacket, wear it proudly and display what you want, just my opinion.

[seattlecyclone]

I recently unearthed my box of Scouting memorabilia from when I was a boy. Included was a copy of the official insignia guide, (copyright 1986, printed 1993). The publication had this to say about jackets and jac-shirts:

Quote

Jackets and their Insignia

Red, blaze, and blue jackets in nylon, wool, and poplin are available for optional wear by youth members and adult leaders. The proper universal emblem for the branch of Scouting the wearer is engaged in should be worn on the left pocket or, in case of a zippered jacket or the action jacket for Explorers, above the pocket. The Philmont bull emblem is especially designed for the red wool jac-shirt to be sewn on the left shoulder above the pocket. On all jackets the Philmont Scout Ranch, Philmont Training Center, or high-adventure base emblems may be worn centered on the right pocket or in the same relative position if there is no pocket. Explorer posts may wear their post or special-interest emblem on the right sleeve 2 inches below the shoulder seam or they may elect to wear a 6-inch emblem on the back of the jac-shirt or the action jacket—not both. The Order of the Arrow has adopted the jac-shirt as its official jacket, and members may wear the 6-inch national Order of the Arrow patch centered on the back. The large Philmont, NESA, jamboree, National Camping School, Scoutmaster Award of Merit, and international participant emblems are approved to be worn on the back of the jacket. Only one such emblem may be worn at a time. The Venture/Varsity letter may be worn on the center of the right side of the red or blaze nylon or poplin jacket. In all cases, the lightweight jacket is an alternate for the jac-shirt, and this insignia may be worn on it in the same way.

That's all it said about that. No pictures or diagrams or anything. So at least at that time, there were various types of jackets that were considered an official but optional part of the uniform, and a certain limited set of patches was officially approved for wear on the jackets. 

[mrjohns2]

Page 11 of current Guide to Awards and Insignia 

“Jackets and Their Insignia
Multicolored jackets are available for optional wear by youth members and adult leaders. The universal emblem should be worn on the left
pocket or, in case of a jacket without chest pockets, in the same area. The Philmont bull emblem is especially designed for the red wool jac-shirt to be sewn on the left side above the pocket.
On all jackets, Philmont Scout Ranch, Philmont Training Center, or high-adventure base emblems may be worn centered on the right pocket or in the same relative position if there is no pocket. The Order of the Arrow has adopted the jac-shirt as its official jacket, and members may wear the 6-inch national Order of the Arrow patch centered on the back.
The large Philmont, NESA, jamboree, National Camping School, and international participant emblems are approved to be worn on the back of the jacket. Only one such emblem may be worn at a time.”

[Oldscout448]

But if the universal emblem is not worn, does it not then become just another jacket and therefore not subject to the rules and regs of outrageous Insignia  Guides?   

[seattlecyclone]

20 minutes ago, Oldscout448 said:

But if the universal emblem is not worn, does it not then become just another jacket and therefore not subject to the rules and regs of outrageous Insignia  Guides?   

My gut feeling would be that the garment is an official uniform component and a lack of one authorized patch doesn't entitle you to wear a bunch of unauthorized ones. Would the Uniform Police be cool with it if I put a bunch of wacky patches all over my tan uniform shirt and wore it that way to Scouting functions, so long as I removed the purple fleur-de-lis first?

That said, I've never even been part of a unit where the leaders even expected the members to wear the officially-required pants as part of their uniform. Policing the officially-optional uniform jacket would be the last thing on anybody's mind.

[BetterWithCheddar]

Wow, this thread nearly goes back to my youth. The Jac-shirts were fairly common in my neck of the woods. Even during summer camp, temperatures could still drop into the 40s during the early morning. The Jac-shirts (w/ OA back patch) were akin to a letterman's jacket for older scouts. A few individuals wore insignia from the high adventure bases they had visited. The only taboos I noticed were when folks attempted to display multiple back patches on the back of their Jac-shirts. That wasn't a great look (too cluttered). If I wore my old Jac-shirt to a scouting event today, I'd probably ditch all insignia except for a few pins. Those fit nicely on the collar and pocket flaps.

Edited August 27, 2022 by BetterWithCheddar

[mrjohns2]

3 hours ago, BetterWithCheddar said:

If I wore my old Jac-shirt to a scouting event today, I'd probably ditch all insignia except for a few pins. Those fit nicely on the collar and pocket flaps.

Perfect place, imho, for those eagle mentor pins people want to junk their normal uniform up with. 

[BetterWithCheddar]

On 8/27/2022 at 3:42 PM, mrjohns2 said:

Perfect place, imho, for those eagle mentor pins people want to junk their normal uniform up with. 

I'm returning to Scouting after many years to participate with my Cub-age son. In multiple threads, I've observed some angst over the Eagle mentor pins. They were around in my youth, but I don't recall seeing them clutter many uniforms. Is this a recent development?

[mrjohns2]

5 hours ago, BetterWithCheddar said:

They were around in my youth, but I don't recall seeing them clutter many uniforms. Is this a recent development?

It wasn’t part of my youth in the ‘82-‘96. Now I see adults wearing them on the lapels of their uniforms - all too often.