Time for a change in the uniform?

[Region 7 Voyageur]

In general I like the current uniform. If I had the power to make changes I would:

 

Put a real collar on the shirt

 

Put a yolk on the shirt like they had in the 60's

 

Have garters with tabs as an option

 

Redesign the baseball style hat

 

Have a buckle for the web belt that stays locked in position like the web belt of the USMC

 

Have either real cargo pants or no cargo pants, maybe green jeans(This message has been edited by Region 7 Voy(This message has been edited by Region 7 Voyageur)

[SR540Beaver]

Marcheck,

 

Hmmmm, what clothing would attract kids today? From dropping in on my son's school from time to time and judging by what his friends in the neighborhood wear, it would have to be an untucked t-shirt with some sort of graphic on it, jeans or some sort of cargo pants and untied tennis shoes. Functional, but not very appealing as a uniform. If you think you are going to get them to wear khaki dockers and a polo tucked in with a belt and penny loafers, they will reject it just as quickly as the scout uniform. My son wears that to church and can't wait to get home and put on his "regular" clothes. He does however put on his full uniform for every meeting and outing without complaint or question. Heck, he'll even wear it into a store after a meeting. Of course, having a 6'2", 275 lbs scouter dressed just like him to hide behind helps!

[dsteele]

Some of you may recall that I started a thread looking for a 1970's wool uniform.

 

Well, with the help of that thread, I was able to obtain it. I usually wear the current version of the wool uniform (kaki shirt with sport collar, trouser pants with no elastic -- it really is a nice uniform.)

 

The 1970's wool uniform, I thought, looks sharper and wears better. It does wear better and the one I got was in near-mint condition.

 

However, when I wore it to the council's venturing roundtable, I discovered that it's not all that comfortable in today's setting. In fact, the matching shirt and pants, to my now adult eyes made me look rather WWII. I thought it was cool looking, but definately an anachronism. I had to explain to several people at the Venturing Roundtable (there were youth there and most had no experience in Scouting prior to 1980) what I was wearing.

 

I may have better luck at the district Roundtable next Wednesday. There's lots of older guys there . . .

 

Unc.

[John-in-KC]

My two cents...

 

Fabric and construction are my hot buttons. The pieces of excrement that Supply Division calls uniform parts today are designed to wear out in 6-12 months.

 

That's just not OK for adults.

 

There ARE police uniformers who make a Khaki shirt that is of similar design and superior quality to the BSA field shirt. Supply Division needs to get with the program

 

There ARE pant manufacturers who make good shorts and trousers that are of BETTER design and superior quality to the BSA field trou. Columbia comes to mind. WHY IS IT Philmont sells Columbia shorts??? Hmmmm??? Why is it many council camps have shorts with their patch on them, courtesy of Columbia??? HMMMM???

 

I have my 31 year old youth uniform in my closet. It's my second youth uniform; I outgrew my first. I compare it to my current adult uniform. Frankly, I prefer the construction, fit, and finish of the old clothes.

 

Design? Not quite a "so-what, who cares"... but certainly there are better designs for the Field trousers and shorts than what Supply Division foists on us now.

 

My thoughts. Others will have different thoughts.

 

John

[Bob White]

Tooth of Time Traders sell a lot of merchandise not carried in the BSA catalog. Why? Because it is not a uniform piece it is a commemoratice peice. Tooth of Time Traders purchase it from the BSA supply division who by blanks (unadorned clothing) from manufactures or suppliers and the Supply Division emellishes the apparel themselves (they have their own silk screening and emproider shop) and the sell it to the ToTT who mark it up to whatever the market will bear. I am told that the sales at ToTT in the first few weeks of Trek season pays the Philmont ranch payroll for the entire year.

 

You pay far more for the clothing at ToTT then you would at a camping sore at the mall and certainly far more than the field uniform costs.

 

I fully expect to see a major uniform change in about 5 years to coincide with the 100th anniversary of the BSA.

 

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[BPwannabe@137]

Uncleguinea,

 

I have several 1960's and earily 1970's poly/wool uniforms, complete, with ties, belts and overseas caps (wool with silk lining). I wear them to roundtables, all my cub meetings, and on camping trips (I found two complete uniforms in rough shape and don;t mind wearing them camping). Yes it does look a little WW2ish but other scouters and scouts like it. Its my style, it sends a message of what I am about and the scouting program that I deliver and I am very comfortable. Good for you and don't stop wearing it because you feel out of place.

 

For district dinners and other formal events, I also have the current issue poly wool uniform and wear it with the BSA olive tie and BP hat. Again, very good uniform but expensive.

 

The BSA needs to cut the prices on the uniforms, make some construction changes, and redesign the ball cap (solid green).

 

And who says that boys are not attracted to military uniforms? Most of the scouts i know want their uniforms to look military like. Also, most boys want structure and organization to their life, even if they don;t say so. Besides, by making the boys wear the uniform, it gives them an excuse to wear their "rebellious" clothing "off duty". Its part of growning up and part of being an American.

[Bob White]

John Daigler wrote

"The pieces of excrement that Supply Division calls uniform parts today are designed to wear out in 6-12 months."

 

I have to admit John that I wear a tan uniform shirt that I wore to the 1985 National Jamboree. My son wears one of my shirts and it was 7 years old before he got it.

 

On average I am in uniform 2 or 3 nights a week and a weekend a month.

 

Now I admit that my pants only last 2 or 3 years.

 

Do you ever make use of the life-time warranty on the shirt and pants and send them back for replacement when you wear them out so unsually fast?

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Twocubdad]

I don't seen any need to make any major changes to the basic field uniform. I wasn't active when the change was made to the current tan shirts from the old olive ones, but I can only imagine the uproar. Other than maybe the epaulets, the thing that makes the uniform militaristic is the insignia. By far, most of that is optional. I don't see any boys stripping down their uniforms because they don't think all the patches are cool. Just the opposite, any uniform "mistakes" I see involve boys wearing too many badges rather than too few.

 

Although I wouldn't care to see a wholesale uniform change, I do think they could do a better job with some of the individual pieces.

 

My pet peeve is the pants. They are cut for 12 year olds, if you know what I mean. Aside from adjusting the cut, I'd like to see the pants go in both directions with a BDU-type outdoor version and a Dockers-style dress trouser. I've got a pair of the light-weight wool dress pants which look nice and are very comfortable. Unfortunately they're not appropriate for outings. As far as value, I can wear the dress pants anywhere. There's nothing that identifies them as "Scout pants." I've worn them with a blue blazer and tie to dinner.

 

I'd like to see a more uniform activity shirt instead of the mish-mash of tees. The red polo-style shirt in the catalog would be a good choice if it were better made. I've got one but don't wear it because it is so uncomfortable. I think it's made from recycled milk jugs. It's like wearing a garbage bag.

 

I'd also like to see a better choice of uniform outerwear. Scouts in the winter look like a bunch of gypsies. I have a set from Columbia with an outer parka and rain pants and zip-in fleece liners. I wear the liners without the shells more often than I do the whole set. Something like that would be very versatile. If they sold it in pieces, it would be more affordable. Granted, I paid for $150 for the Columbia gear, but I wear it year-round -- the shell as a rain suit in the summer, the fleece liners in the spring and fall and the whole get-up in the winter. But even at $150, for the wear I get out of it, that's a much better value than the $100 I paid for my red wool jacket.

 

All these different pieces could be worn mixed and matched, creating several levels of uniforming -- Class A, B, C and D, if you will.

[KoreaScouter]

I love these uniform debates. It's impossible to get consensus among us; you can imagine what it's like with a group actually charged to come up with a new design. It almost seems a fool's errand.

 

That said, I'll throw in my $.02.

 

- Colors: Keep 'em. They're identifiable, distinctive, and have legacy power that goes back 100 years. Formally outlaw surplus military camo as part of the uniform -- as one who wears it because I have to, I can say from experience that it looks ridiculous at Scout activities, does nothing for our image, and the first time you get caught in wet weather wearing it, you realize it's not the best material, either.

 

- Shirt design: I'm okay with the collared, button shirt, too. The epaulets/shoulder loops give me some difficulty, though. Those things take a pounding, not so much when hiking (we wear activity uniforms for that), but even when slinging a backpack to/from a meeting, for example. They could go away and it wouldn't bother me a bit. Scouters above unit level? We'll know by the patch on his sleeve -- I don't need to see a silver shoulder loop to know I'm dealing with a Council guy.

 

- Shirt materials: It's time to drag National into the 1980's (the 21st century would be great, but I'm a pragmatist) in this respect, kicking and screaming if necessary. So many better materials out there. I don't understand the "made in USA" argument either. I'm as patriotic as the next guy, but aside from the clothing, lots of the other stuff in the catalog is made in China, Sri Lanka, or Bangladesh -- check the labels in your shoes, tents, backpacks, etc. Open an REI catalog for material ideas.

 

- Pants design: Needed immediately: real cargo pockets, and no sew-on patch pockets at all. They scream out "we're cutting all the corners we can". Reinforced knees and seats on the youth uniforms is a must.

 

- Pants materials: See "Shirt materials" above.

 

- Belt: How about a nylon web with a male/female snap buckle, just like the waist belt on our packs?

 

- Hat: I wear a campaign hat for meetings and ceremonies, not in the field. I wear the baseball hat when I'm playing baseball in uniform. Let's get a crushable, waterproof, reversible (green outside, hunter-orange or reflective scotchlite) bucket/boonie hat that's functional in the field. You could include a logo & unit ID for when the lads are wearing outerwear that obscures the uniform.

 

- t-shirt: I don't see anything wrong with units designing their own Troop t's, but a standard BSA undershirt made of a moisture wicking material would be great.

 

- Outerwear: C'mon; both the windbreaker and Jac-shirt are merely decorative. Let's get a 3-in-1 convertible, check REI again.

 

The military's got a lot of different uniform combos based on what you're doing and where you're doing it. Get and wear what fits your mission. We emulate much of what the military does; why not that? Nobody's proposing everybody gets everything in the catalog. I don't now, and I won't if we have material/design options. I'm going to get what I need, want, and am willing to pay for.

 

KS

[BPwannabe@137]

I have to say that I like alot of the options people are saying for new uniforms. KS-you have the best ideas yet. However, we know that some group of scouters will hire a marketing company to redesign the uniform, talk to kids (non scouts), and come up with some outlandish uniform.

 

Maybe something like... (this is were we start playing time travel sound effects)

 

First-do away with our current logo-to military (remember the spear head arguement made against BP) Replace with a more kid friendly animal like a Pokemon Figure.

 

Hat-tri-colored ball cap, low crown and super long bill with a cute logo cartoon figure on frount.

$35.00

 

shirt-blue, tan, green, silver, or gold, depending on your activity/position. Again, cute cartoon logo on left chest. "scouts" stiched along cuffs. Wear do you wear your lodge patch, rank, office, and council strip??? Patches, we don't need no stinkin patches. Besides, these only make those youth that don't want to apply themselves feel, unwanted and unloved. The new uniform puts everyone on the same playing feild.

$55.00

 

Belt-no belt since shirts are worn untucked.

 

Pants-super baggy, tan. No belt so the waist line can show off your "scouters crack".

$75.00

 

Vest-because if Old Navy carries vests, then they have to be cool. Wear all your patches on the vest, just like the girl scouts.

$55.00

 

Shorts-again, supper baggy and long. SO long that they can double for pants. Therefore, the price,

$75.00

 

neckerchef-multicolored imitation silk. No slide needed, just tie around your neck like a disco dancer. Very cute and unisex

$15.98

 

(Enter the time travel music again)

So what we will have is a very stylish outfit. It will be praised by some as bringing us to the 21st century, breaking us away from looking like the military or some outdatesd South African Constabale. After all, who wants to look like a rough, strong, self reliant, mature, professional soldier anyway. Every kid wants to look like a hamburger flipper.

 

Oh, buy the way, the future reports that kids are not wearing their scout uniforms because they cost too much, they need to be constructed better, and their friends see them and make fun of them for being scouts.

 

Sorry, just needed to rant...---...

 

 

[John-in-KC]

The MANAGER of the BSA Supply Division Scout Shop (Kansas City) says there is NO lifetime warranty; "manufac

[FScouter]

From the Director of the National Supply Division, printed in the catalog: "If, for any reason, you are dissatisfied with any item purchased from the Boy Scouts of America, you can either exchange the item for a replacement or receive a full and complete refund. No questions asked."