Uniforms and Cub Scout Overnighters

[fotoscout]

I am curious, how many of you instruct your cubs to wear their uniforms on trip s like this one?

 

For those of you that dont, why not?

 

[Bob White]

Instruct...no. Ask, motivate, yes.

 

B:)b White

[Laurie]

Well, I suggested wearing uniforms on a Cub overnighter, but everyone thought I was nuts. Reasons: they'll get lost, dirty (???), damaged.

[fotoscout]

Yes instruct.

 

This is not one where the democratic process rules. We either will, or will not wear the uniform. We do not allow it to become a topic of discussion. With the exception of camping trips, we do everything in uniform. Even then our boys and leaders are instructed to bring their uniform for dinner, campfire, and Scouts Own. The committee decides and thats the way it is.

 

Weve not had a single uniform piece go missing on any of our outings. Sometimes they go home with the wrong person but they are always accounted for. As I noted above, I dont advocate going camping or engaging in any other rigorous outdoors activity with the uniform, but this is museum. The chances of damaging a uniform are no greater than at Pack night, probably lower..

 

[EagleInKY]

I agree with Foto. Set the standard, then make sure all your leaders follow it. Now, I never believe in sending a boy home that shows up without the uniform. But I will talk to him and expect it to not happen again.

 

The only thing I've seen lost on campouts is neckerchief slides. For that reason, we encourage the boys to leave their neckerchiefs at home when we are going on a campout or similar activity. That's not quite as easy with Cubs, but it works fine for Boy Scouts.

[Bob White]

 

"This is not one where the democratic process rules."

 

Nor should it be a dictatorship. Like the other methods of scouting it is a tool for leadership but it is not a hammer.

 

What is gained, other than cosmetically, if the scout wears the uniform because he was ordered to rather than out of pride for what it represents?

[Its Me]

Kids don't wear the uniforms because they are impractical.

 

We just had a Bear outing to park and cooked out. My son and the new scout were the only ones in uniform. I didn't tell the other scouts to wear their uniform nor did I say don't. Left to make a choice the scout and the parent would rather he not wear the uniform.

 

Why?

Because they are seen as a serious uniform to worn for parades and official use only. Not as playground and craft wear. Why would a kid risk a shirt which has such serious patches as and awards that took him nine months to earn on a park or playground? He doesn't want to ruin it. Neither does mom.

 

Uniforms need to match the activities that they will be used for. What are cub activities? For Bears its some talking activities but mostly its making stuff and physical activity.

 

Seventy years ago people wore ties to school and suits to church. Back then a button down collared shirts would have been casual wear, now its tee-shirts and jeans at school and an open neck collard shirt at church.

 

The military has two uniforms one for dress with all the campaign ribbons and awards and one for the field. The field one may have only a modest suggestion of rank.

 

The cub uniform is seen by BSA as so precious that camp patches may not be attached. If the uniform is too precious for cub awards then it is surely too precious to make musical instruments with glue and paint. And the uniform is too precious to wear ion an overnighter where it might get torn or stained.

 

 

Uniforms arent worn because the scout and the parent see them as parade wear only.

 

Update the uniforms and more kids will wear them.

 

[evmori]

What can be gained? Sometimes free or cheaper admission fees to attractions. I know in Niagara Falls Scouts in uniform get a discounted price at most attractions!

 

A Scout is thrifty!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[fotoscout]

I would think that with this approach you have great difficulties getting your kids into the uniform. As BW is so fond of saying, the uniform is one of the methods of Scouting, to do that the boys need to wear the uniform more than twice a year. AND, the parents need to think of the uniform as a part of the boys participation in scouting.

 

Sure its a $100.00 getup, but so are the sneakers and game boys that these kids strut around with all day, everyday.

 

The uniform isnt precious, its special. Its special because its the single stand out item that puts the exclamation point on everything we do as scouts. Go to firehouse in street clothes and its just a trip to the fire house, go to the fire house in a CS uniform and the boys will remember it as a CS outing. The same goes for everything we do. The uniform is the signature that puts an indelible BSA mark on everything we do.

 

As for considering the uniform as a Parade item, think about this: With the exception of July 4th and Memorial Day, most parade opportunities occur when a jacket is needed. The uniform isnt even visible. Then theres the July 4th argument that its too hot to wear the uniform, lets wear class Bs sez the parents.and the leader bow's to the pressure.

 

I really think that this is about the leaders failing to lead. We are a uniformed organization, we are expected to be in uniform (not mandated but expected) and that means that the leaders have to take a position and promote it. It easier to say, Forget about the uniform its not important, than it is to say, what can we do to get little Johnny into a uniform.

 

And by the way, for all of you who remember Costume Boy, he was the first one of my kids into the new Webelos uniform.

 

 

 

 

[Its Me]

With traditionalist it's ALWAYS the first line volunteer leadership that is the problem.

 

The programs are never wrong

The policies are are never wrong

And certainly the uniforms are never wrong.

 

Rather its the shlep of a Dad you isn't following BSA rules that is the problem.

 

One would be wrong if they always saw it this way. And I belive many on this Form see it this way as a matter of course.

 

The unifrom issue is more complex than just mandating that it be worn. The complexities arise in that the boy and parent have to be told (repeatedly) that jr. must wear it.

 

[fotoscout]

You are correct that the uniform issue is complex. I believe that making the uniform mandatory would eliminate all complexities from the equation.

 

As for the need to constantly remind people to wear the uniform, this issue goes away when it becomes routine for the boys to wear their uniforms. The expectation should be that the boys wear the uniform all the time unless told otherwise.

 

The dad can be a schlep or a smuck, but odds are that he enrolled his son in CS partially because of an association with what the uniform stands for.

 

[Its Me]

You are correct that the uniform issue is complex. I believe that making the uniform mandatory would eliminate all complexities from the equation.

 

If it were that simple it wouldn't be complex.

 

 

As for the need to constantly remind people to wear the uniform, this issue goes away when it becomes routine for the boys to wear their uniforms. The expectation should be that the boys wear the uniform all the time unless told otherwise.

 

Enforcement! That's what it is. Thanks its so simple we must be the only pack in the world not having full uniforms participation.

 

The dad can be a schlep or a smuck, but odds are that he enrolled his son in CS partially because of an association with what the uniform stands for.

 

 

I am not arguing with what the uniform stands for. You have purposely tried to switch the debate. I am saying the uniform itself is part of the reason that enforcement is a problem.

 

 

Can I assume that you believe that the uniform design in no way contributes to the enforcement issue?

 

 

 

[EagleInKY]

If the adult leaders do not support the uniform, neither will the boys. When adult leaders start setting an example, it's amazing how the boys will fall in line. I think the problem is that there are too many adult leaders out there that think it's geeky to wear the uniform, and that attitude is rubbing off on their kids.

 

It reminds me of a parent who told me they wanted their son to earn Eagle Scout by his 14th birthday. I asked them why. He told me that being a scout was geeky, and he wanted his son to earn his Eagle before he figured that out and wanted to drop out. I was amazed, especially given the fact that the dad in question is an Eagle Scout. Given that attitude, I'm sure that is what will happen.

[Region 7 Voyageur]

Here are two quotes that I think relate to this discussion.

 

August, 1913:

 

"Scoutmasters and Commissioners have in their positions to think of others

rather than themselves. Personally, I put on a uniform, even if I have only

a Patrol to inspect, because I am certain that it raises the moral tone of

the boys. It heightens their estimation of their uniform when they see it

is not beneath a grown man to wear it; it heightens their estimation of

themselves when they find themselves taken seriously by men who also count

it of importance to be in the same brotherhood with them.

 

I have been in the habit of wearing shorts instead of pants when in the

Scout uniform, but I do it intentional, not merely because I am more

comfortable in shorts, but because it puts me more closely on a level with

the boys. And the more a Scout official assimilates his inward ideas and

his outward dress with the boys', the more likely he is to be in sympathy

with them and they with him."

 

September, 1918:

 

"I had to comment the other day on the slovenly get-up of some Scouts I had

seen, and I am perfectly certain in my mind that their Scoutmaster (though

I had not seen him) does not dress himself correctly or well.

 

Smartness in uniform and correctness in detail seems a small matter to fuss

about, but has its value in the development of self-respect, and means an

immense deal to the reputation of the movement among outsiders who judge by

what they see.

 

It is largely a matter of example. Show me a slackly-dressed Troop and I

can "Sherlock" a slackly-dressed Scoutmaster. Think of it, Scoutmasters,

when you are fitting on your uniform and putting that final saucy cock to

your hat. You are the model to your boys and your smartness will reflect

itself in them."

 

 

Robert Stephenson Smyth Baden-Powell

 

[EagleInKY]

Voyageur - Great Quote!